HELP 2004 k1200gt battery good, parking lights work, no dash or starting power - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
 
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old May 20th, 2016, 8:03 pm Thread Starter
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HELP 2004 k1200gt battery good, parking lights work, no dash or starting power

Just had the bike now two weeks. rode it 4 days ago, then today, turn the key, no dash power, no power, checked battery, its good, just for the heck of it put charger on it and the charger needle dropped to zero (full charge real quick)

i turn the key to parking lights, they work, checked fuses in small boxes under seat good.

DEAD

help, any ideas
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old May 20th, 2016, 8:40 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrypcman
Just had the bike now two weeks. rode it 4 days ago, then today, turn the key, no dash power, no power, checked battery, its good, just for the heck of it put charger on it and the charger needle dropped to zero (full charge real quick)

i turn the key to parking lights, they work, checked fuses in small boxes under seat good.

DEAD

help, any ideas
Looks like an ignition switch internal problem. The way it is designed inside, the parking light position (front and rear bulb) is feeding power thru a separate wire from ignition switch.

There is NO main relay OR main fuse to shut everything down. So either (1) the battery is weak/dead (2) a loose battery pole (3) the ignition switch.

Although these ignition switches have been very reliable on K1200RS/GT, two (2) separate forums have shown a few failures during last 5 years. Keep in mind all these K1200RS/GT "brick-engine" are all 10 to 17 years old now (1998 was 1st year for K1200RS in USA)

The end connector of the ignition switch is located into the relay junction box under fuel-tank. Power / continuity can bet tested at this end connector before the switch is removed from triple clamp top.

I am assuming you are quite handy with a wrench and that you have the BMW shop-manual OR the CLYMER shop manual. To get a start on removing, inspecting and cleaning your ignition switch, check this post with photos from another very good forum:
http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=48100

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John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 91,000 miles)
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old May 20th, 2016, 9:55 pm Thread Starter
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update

Thanks you were right on the money!!

Turned the key to on, Grabbed the cable under switch and moved it, nothing, GRABBED HARDIER, DASH LIGHTS CAME ON, BIKE BACK TO NORMAL, MOVED AGAIN, NO POWER

guess I will be taking the ignition/light switch apart tomorrow, must be one loose wire which has come loose from a soldered connection.



2004 K1200gt only 24,000 miles
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old May 21st, 2016, 8:08 am Thread Starter
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Crazy now can't get it NOT to work

So this morning decided to wiggle the connector real hard to make sure to verify its a loose connection with the intent of taking it apart and resoldering the faulting one.

But no matter how hard I wiggled of course without breaking it, it wouldn't stop working correctly.

So now I would just assume dirty contacts and just for now will leave it and next week go ahead and take it apart and clean them..

UPDATE
Took switch apart without taking any panels off, disconnected battery, switch looked brand new, pulled on wires after removing dust cover, sure enough, green wire although making contact was not soldered in right, re-soldered

ITS FIXED,!!!

Last edited by Jerrypcman; May 21st, 2016 at 1:41 pm. Reason: Update
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2016, 11:09 am
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IMHO, BMW wiring needs help. Specifically, some of the return ("ground" *) wires are undersized and poorly connected. The ground wire for the headlights is a good example of this.
  1. Any return wire must be at least as big (in wire gauge size) as the wire going into the device being fed. Anything less means a significant voltage drop which means the device doesn't get all the power it deserves. As a result, the current increases, which drains the battery or loads the alternator more than necessary, may also cause the device to heat up (heat is bad for electrics unless designed to be hot - hand and seat warmers, for example). See Ohm's Law for the gory details.
  2. If two or more wires go into the device, the return wire must be larger (bump up at least one and preferably two wire sizes - smaller number gauge is larger or 12 AWG is larger than 16 AWG - than any one wire. See a) above for the explanation.
  3. If at all possible, solder the terminal and seal it with heatshrink tubing, or at least use a real crimping tool (not cheap but you'll be glad you have it) and not those combination stripper/squeezer things. The goal here is to minimize voltage drop in the connection.
  4. When use a connector (spade or bullet type), put dielectric grease on the fitting before making the connection. The connection with be protected from water and dirt intrusion which (here we go again) increases the resistance over the connection, creating a voltage drop. Using dielectric grease applies to your battery terminals too. CRC makes a good dielectric grease "gun".

Ground v. return: The bike's electrical system is ultimately a closed loop. It does not use the ground (or "earthing" to close the loop; it uses wiring on the bike. Understanding the difference helps to visualize why return wires must be appropriate to the wiring supplying power to the device under consideration. This applies to headlights, horns, starters, panel lights, everything.

Voltage loss is additive. Lose a tenth of a volt here, a tenth of a volt there, add up the losses, and it's easy to find a volt or more drop. That's the equivalent of dealing with a badly undercharged battery. At rest state, a battery will measure about 12.8 volts. At 11.6 volts a battery is considered fully discharged. That means losing 1.2 volts is the equivalent of running a device on a dead battery. 'Nuff said.

Not all who wander are lost. Which still leaves room for more than a few lost wanderers...

Red Flash - '03 K1200RS, lightly farkled

Last edited by RBEmerson; May 22nd, 2016 at 11:15 am.
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2016, 1:09 pm
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Electrical problems that fix themselves are the worst kind because they can unfix themselves when you are miles from anywhere.

Sailor gave you pointers on the ignition switch. Wiring for the cockpit and ignition switch is all in that large bundle you can see if you look underneath. When you steer, the loom bundle has to move and you can get wires in the bundle with partial breaks. Wiggling the steering back and forth on the center stand may show up something. The main problem with the OE wiring is their wire gauges seem to have been optimized and sized with a computer which means that whilst they can take the electrical current, they are on the thin side when it comes to ruggedness. You can see this when they wire to junctions or nodes inside the loom. Some wire length are a large gauge, then others springing off the junction are a lot smaller. They save a little money on copper, but can build in reliability problems later on.

To quote RBEmersons reply, The headlight ground looks wimpy and not right, but the computer optimization chose a smaller wire gauge because it only runs a short distance to a ground point and has very little voltage drop. Unfourtunately it only needs a little moisture to wick up the wire from a termination and what little copper is in the wire corrodes quickly. There is a flaw though in the gauge in = gauge out because BMW use junctions and nodes where several grounds of smaller gauge come out and they rely on these parallel wires (according to their optimization program) taking the total current.

I used to use crimp and butt connectors a lot, but I've changed my ideas having seen what happens on boats. If I use a crimp I also run solder in the end to stop moisture/salt water wicking back, then heatshrink over the back end. For multiple connections I will butt solder and sleeve, rather than use any kind of crimp or bullet style joiner.

Last edited by voxmagna; May 22nd, 2016 at 1:19 pm.
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2017, 12:28 pm
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Hi...i am a new user here. As per my knowledge there is NO main relay OR main fuse to shut everything down. So either (1) the battery is weak/dead (2) a loose battery pole (3) the ignition switch.
Although these ignition switches have been very reliable on K1200RS/GT, two (2) separate forums have shown a few failures during last 5 years.
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