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  #31  
Old Jun 16th, 2008, 12:27 am
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macman macman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCW
I'm certain you can just mount new lines from the stock MC to the stock calipers. Or from a new radial MC to stock calipers.

I would have no clue how to separate the servo from the ABS, though.

Yes, that would be the conundrum.
It "seems" that if you mounted a radial m/c to your radial calipers and ran two lines direct it woud be all good. But how do you bypass, as you mentioned the servo/abs and all the fault codes.
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  #32  
Old Jun 16th, 2008, 4:27 am
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JCW - nice going!!! Very impressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macman
Yes, that would be the conundrum.
It "seems" that if you mounted a radial m/c to your radial calipers and ran two lines direct it woud be all good. But how do you bypass, as you mentioned the servo/abs and all the fault codes.


If you'd get a two "special hoses", one that plugs into the in-to-ABS (from brake lever) and one that plugs into the out-of-ABS (to the calipers) then the ABS would be none the wiser. These special hoses would simply be a stub of hose on one end the banjo-bolt as usual, the other end just sealed off.
Problem: Bleeding. Possible solution: bleeding nipple at the end of the hose.
Potential problem: If the ABS software is cross-linked to the brake light it will trigger an error when the ABS/Servo is not working, but the brake-light-circuit is on.

Now, go on...
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  #33  
Old Jun 16th, 2008, 7:04 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macman
Yes, that would be the conundrum.
It "seems" that if you mounted a radial m/c to your radial calipers and ran two lines direct it woud be all good. But how do you bypass, as you mentioned the servo/abs and all the fault codes.


Oh yeah. Forgot about the error codes. Damn.
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  #34  
Old Jun 16th, 2008, 10:03 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJoker
JCW - nice going!!! Very impressed.



If you'd get a two "special hoses", one that plugs into the in-to-ABS (from brake lever) and one that plugs into the out-of-ABS (to the calipers) then the ABS would be none the wiser. These special hoses would simply be a stub of hose on one end the banjo-bolt as usual, the other end just sealed off.
Problem: Bleeding. Possible solution: bleeding nipple at the end of the hose.
Potential problem: If the ABS software is cross-linked to the brake light it will trigger an error when the ABS/Servo is not working, but the brake-light-circuit is on.

Now, go on...

You are deekey and sneevious. The whole CAN/BUS brake self test on startup and others might still be issues, but, I could always give it a shot this winter and see.
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  #35  
Old Jun 16th, 2008, 10:19 am
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The self test should only figure out whether the system is there and operational. I don't think that it can apply brake pressure and check if the brake pistons are moving. So assuming there's fluid in the system, and it's all connected up, it shouldn't "figure out" that there's no connection between your brake lever and the brake pistons.
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  #36  
Old Jun 27th, 2008, 11:17 pm
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Finally found a engineering scale drawing of the Brembo racing calipers. Added it to my CAD of the BMW fork and disc...

Sweetness.



A block of AL that size weighs a pound. After I shape it to fit, maybe 0.5 pound each side.
If I knew what I was doing, I'm sure it would be 1/2 pound total.

Anyone have a radial Brembo caliper for sale?

Last edited by JCW : Jun 28th, 2008 at 12:16 am.
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  #37  
Old Jun 28th, 2008, 6:20 am
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Your making progress JC, can't wait to see further developments but do you really think its worth the cost and effort?
I was reading last week an article about common urban myths in biking and radial mounts cropped up. It was said that benefits were exagerated by the big manufacturers to increase sales and the main reason race teams use them is because they are quicker/easier to centre and adjust when changing between different discs/pads for example moto gp bikes changing to iron discs for wet races quickly. I realise your bike's going to be more track orientated than the likes of mine but even then are you going to see any benefit over a decent radial MC and caliper set up?
At the end of the day your still going to be mounting on to a conventional mount which is never going to be as stiff as a fork lower with intergrated radial mounts.
I'm not dishing your ideas or efforts because I really enjoy reading about your work and hope you see the project through and I realise I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know.
Alan
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  #38  
Old Jun 28th, 2008, 8:36 am
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I agree with what you've said and pretty much stated as much in the previous post here.

The reason is that all the new calipers come in radial configuration. They are stiffer and come with more pads which improve initial bite.

I even went through all the different available configurations and ranked them. Here you go...

4 pad, billet, monoblock, Brembo X99.C4.60/61 (108mm 34/34) $1879
4 pad, billet, monoblock, non-Brembo PVM, Harris, AP, etc
2 pad, billet, monoblock, Brembo X97.37.60/61 (108mm 32/36) $1529
2 pad, billet, monoblock, non-Brembo PVM, Harris, AP, etc
4 pad, billet, 2 piece, Brembo none
4 pad, billet, 2 piece, non-Brembo none
2 pad, billet, 2 piece, Brembo 220.A016.10 HP performance calipers (108mm, 2 pin )- $700
2 pad, billet, 2 piece, non-Brembo none

4 pad, cast, monoblock, Brembo none
4 pad, cast, monoblock, non-Brembo none
2 pad, cast, monoblock, Brembo 220.A397.10 Brembo M4 Ducati 1098 (108mm, 2 pin 34/34) $500
2 pad, cast, monoblock, non-Brembo Honda CBR1000RR 08 Tokico (108mm), Yamaha R1 06 Sumitomo (108mm)
4 pad, cast, 2 piece, Brembo 20.8343.11/21 Brembo P4 Ducati 848 (100mm 34/34) $300
4 pad, cast, 2 piece, non-Brembo Nissin (108mm 30/30) on Ebay cheap
2 pad, cast, 2 piece, Brembo Stock (65mm 32/36)- $400 Ebay- cheaper?
2 pad, cast, 2 piece, non-Brembo Stock (65mm 32/36)- Tokico

The more I read about the two piece billet Brembo's the less I like them. I'm thinking monoblock may be more important than billet. And I may end up with a 2 pad cast monoblock from Brembo.

As far as mounting, I think the radial mounting refers to the caliper rather than the fork. Many forks mount with the bolts axially like that. The difference is I'm adding a second set of bolts. The Ohlins R&T forks on my zx-10r also have a separate bracket to mount radial calipers.


Last edited by JCW : Jun 28th, 2008 at 8:49 am.
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  #39  
Old Jun 28th, 2008, 9:13 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCW
The more I read about the two piece billet Brembo's the less I like them. I'm thinking monoblock may be more important than billet. And I may end up with a 2 pad cast monoblock from Brembo.

As far as mounting, I think the radial mounting refers to the caliper rather than the fork. Many forks mount with the bolts axially like that. The difference is I'm adding a second set of bolts. The Ohlins R&T forks also have a separate bracket to mount radial calipers.





I hear what your saying but are YOU actually going to feel a massive difference between billet, monobloc etc?

With regard to mounts, Radially refers to the way the caliper mounts to the fork. Ohlins brackets are all new fork lowers drilled and tapped radially for radial brackets.Your caliper might be radially mounted but your bracket won't be. I think all the stiffness your looking for in a caliper is going to be lost because your bracket is going to be mounted the same way as a convention caliper.
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  #40  
Old Jun 28th, 2008, 9:52 am
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On the street, between billet and cast, probably not.

On the track, I think so. I've talked to people that have the mods at the track. It manifests as more consistent braking and less or no brake fade.

The 4 pad calipers will provide a greater initial bite that is noticeable on the street.

Didn't we agree that radially mounting doesn't necessarily mean a stiffer mount, though?

The difference will be in the caliper design. Monoblock vs 2 piece. Billet vs cast.

Changing to radial just allows me more options in calipers.

At least that's my thinking.

Either way, as a cast 2-piece 2-pad non-Brembo brake caliper, the stock calipers are on the ground level of brakes. I'm just looking to upgrade as any good bike nut would do.

Last edited by JCW : Jun 28th, 2008 at 10:03 am.
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