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  #21  
Old Nov 15th, 2009, 9:17 am
smiller smiller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahma
I vote for a new engine, if not new bike.
+1

Do not accept anything less than a new engine, period.
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  #22  
Old Nov 15th, 2009, 2:01 pm
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volvor volvor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainman
Well, I got a call from the dealer this afternoon. I couldn't take the call, but the Service Manager left a message that they have taken the engine apart and "it has a few bent valves". His message said he was e-mailing BMWNA right now "to make sure we are on the same page". There was no explanation of what that actualy means, but I hope that implies they can replace some major part of this mess under the warranty I still have in effect.

He also said I could come on over and "take a gander" at it on Tuesday (when they next open). You bet I will. There is only one way I know how to bend valves and that would be if they were banging on the top of the piston(s) and I bet they don't look too good either. And what about the rods, the cams, rockers, bearings, main journal. For sure the culprit chain and any/all gears on the ends of the cams and bottom end. How close do you look downstream before you declare a disaster? Heck, the parts I mention are those that may have taken a beating. I want to know how the heck this could have happened? What part of this design allowed an engine with only 24K on it to destruct on cranking it over? I don't abuse this bike at all. I never over-rev it, dump the clutch, etc. It barely sees 7-8K on extended windups from me, and most of those are with a smooth hand. I do tend to use a lot of engine braking, but those shifts are well matched to the gearing.

Am I the only guy that has destructed his top end? What else would you guys be wary of if they don't replace the entire engine? Maybe some of you have an idea of how much of the engine would you hold out for as being an acceptable fix.

I'd love to hear from you.

OMFG
You've got me worried, I bounce mine off the rev limiter about once a week!
If they don't put an engine in it...I'd be surprised.
Most dealers now days replace units, ie. engines, transmissions etc.
We rarely repair engine damage like you've had.
I recently repaired a car that had bent valves, tech guys sitting in a room giving advice told me to put valves in it and ship it. Came back about a month later, bad fuel mileage, shitty idle....we put an engine in it.
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  #23  
Old Nov 15th, 2009, 5:13 pm
DavidS DavidS is online now
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Go for the gold. Demand a new engine and see what happens. Bitch up the chain of command at BMWNA until you get someone w/ the authority to really address your concerns. Hoping the dealer will vigorously fight for you, IMHO, isn't much of a plan.
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  #24  
Old Nov 15th, 2009, 5:21 pm
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volvor volvor is offline
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Very true. Dealers can suggest but not authorize replacement.
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  #25  
Old Nov 17th, 2009, 9:12 pm
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Rainman Rainman is offline
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Unhappy Went in to visit the patient

Well, this afternoon after work I went to the dealer to see my injured baby.
The head tech took me back to see her. I didn't have to gown up or put a mask on, but what I saw almost made me gag.
Seriously, he was very good about taking me into the service bays and let me take these pictures as well.

Here she is. I've never seen her so,... naked. They took her whole head off - literally.



Here is another view from the right side.



Here is a closer view of the clutch and open right side.



Here is all my custom wiring for PIAAs, horn, fuse box, accessory outlets. I asked the tech if that caused him any grief.
I got a slow and painful look from him and then he said "I've seen worse".
I'm pretty sure he didn't approve, but he understood the need to mod.



Man, looking down from where the gas tank usually sits, all there is is starter and tranny left in her guts.



Well,... here is part of the damage. This is obviously the head. Those valves on the left in the picture are obviously bent. So are a few others.
There is no set of cams on the other side that is holding any of them open, so they are as "tightly" closed as they can possibly be right here. Uugghh !



There is a closer look at the end cylinder set.



So, was it just the heads? Hardly !!!
Here is a spread of some of the other parts from the top end.
I'll point out the not so obvious in a couple more close-ups.



Oh my God !!!! What's this? Why it's a broken front cam shaft.
Look back at my post from 10/30 and you will see that part #1 and part #4 separated company - very violently.



One last picture. Here is a closer look at some of the "pieces" that were found in the lower right side of the case. Check out to contorted screws and some of the pieces that broke off at the end of the cam shaft (1) that hold the sprocket (4) to it.



The Service Manager wasn't in today. I will talk to him tomorrow.
I am sure BMWNA and the dealer will take care of this somehow.
I am very worried and confused about what actually caused this, and if it will happen again.
Nobody seems to have an answer for that - yet.

I'll keep you posted.
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  #26  
Old Nov 17th, 2009, 10:52 pm
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JCW JCW is offline
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IMO, the bolts holding the new exhaust cam sprocket were not fastened properly and worked their way loose and off with vibration.

Typically, I loctite sprocket bolts in place on cams. I wonder if the cam was not cleaned or too oily or loctite was not even used.
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  #27  
Old Nov 18th, 2009, 7:43 am
GMack GMack is offline
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Wow! Nice photos, btw.

I concur with JCW. It does seem the bolt came loose and the vibration and wobble came into play of the cam sprocket retainer and it broke. That guy that had the photo of the connecting rod that came apart and went through the K-engine case was another mess.

Any damage to the top of the pistons?

Mack
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  #28  
Old Nov 18th, 2009, 4:50 pm
smiller smiller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCW
IMO, the bolts holding the new exhaust cam sprocket were not fastened properly and worked their way loose and off with vibration.

Typically, I loctite sprocket bolts in place on cams. I wonder if the cam was not cleaned or too oily or loctite was not even used.
Surprisingly the torque spec for those bolts is only 19nm/14 ft.lb. and no locking agent is specified, which seems kind of dicey given the criticality. I think I'd be strongly tempted to use some Locktite for this application as well.
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  #29  
Old Nov 18th, 2009, 6:10 pm
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Brahma Brahma is offline
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I just threw up in my mouth
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  #30  
Old Nov 18th, 2009, 7:04 pm
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Rainman Rainman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahma
I just threw up in my mouth


Well guess what,... I crapped my pants, and I can't sleep at night.
I'm not sure I could ever trust this specific engine ever again.

I'm being patient to see what remedy will be offered.

But I got to tell you, makes me wonder about cancelling that S1000RR order.
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