Ok so the newer style tensioner is old news by now, so if ya haven't yet its time to get that done, both old and new are hydrolic but the new has holes in the mounting plate and the cap that bolts where the old plate did acts as a reservior. The deal with the "chaintooth jump guard", is pretty simple, remove clutch/crankend cover and it snaps into place over the existing guard casted into the case then held in place with the cover, adding additional protection to keep the chain from skipping a tooth should something cause it to. I should have done all of this myself, but the other day on the phone with the dealer this was new as of last month and the service bulletin was not all that clear as to what held the guard in place so I opted to pay and watch this time, education comes with a tuition price and this one was about two and a half hrs. shop time on the first go, but its only about an hour and a half job, this guy is a clean freak, after finishing he was back there with a can of cleaner in one hand and a fresh micro-fiber cloth in the other removeing any trace he'd been there. They did it on saturday, a good job while I waited so I paid cash and thanked them. The parts, gastet, tensioner kit, guard and one time screws etc. run about two bills plus labor, 400 dallars for the peace of mind that I've done all that can be to this point to prevent cam chain/related failures.
I don't think the plastic chain guard is meant to protect anything if the chain comes off or breaks. My guess is that it is there merely to prevent the chain from 'jumping' off there at the small sprocket is enough slack exists.
No that little piece of plastic wouldn't do anything at all if a chain let go (other than disintegrate ), nor have I ever heard of a slant K cam chain spontaneously breaking or completely coming off the sprocket (unless the engine had already locked up due to a timing problem.) The guard is to prevent chain whipping (perhaps from a hydraulic tensioner that hasn't some up to pressure yet, etc.) from allowing the chain to skip a tooth and permitting a timing problem to be created in the first place.
kbmws is right, I called the dealer and the Chain tooth Jump Guard is not a warranty item nor is it part of a recall at this time. My 2010 13GT did not have one installed in it but the 2010 13GT does have the newer style Tensioner. Although he has never seen a GT (1200 or 1300) with chain that has jumped with a older style tensioner, the older style tensioner should considered being replaced at some point when out of specification. The guard would be installed as an extra piece of mind.
I have a tensioner and jump guard on order right now at BMW Ventura. They are supposed to be in tomorrow. (That's what they said last week though!)
I was called the Beta Tester last week by the service department! They had never heard of any problem, and wondered how I found out about the "jump guard".
If Randog or Meese get the part before me, let me know. I'd like to watch the install. I leave for Death Valley on Thursday and San Francisco on Sunday. Let's hope my chain stays on for two more trips! :yeow:
I had the guard installed while extended warranty picked up the replacement of the chain. Picking up the bike tomorrow.
That being said I have a engine gasket that would be needed if you want to do the chain guard install yourself.
I bought it from another poster here thinking I was going to do it myself....things change.
So for the price I paid for it ($19) its yours.
I think it retails for $26.
Just finished installing my jump guard. Here's a couple of hints.
The one-time use screws on mine were somewhat stubborn to remove on the lower portion. When I got them out, all sorts of thread shavings came out along with the screws. I decided before I removed the clutch cover, I'd blow out the rest of the aluminum shavings with compressed air for good measure.
Here is the jump guard which was really easy to press in.
This is the second issue I almost missed. It is some little half-ball in the clutch cover that likes to rotate into the wrong position as it is bathed in oil. Since it resembles half a ball bearing, it could rotate to a position and be wrong if you don't catch it and I almost missed it. It needs to have the flat side facing the clutch stack.
Here it's shown halfway turned in the middle of the circular piece with 4 Torx screws. I used some thick grease to hold it in position while reinstalling the cover.
I left the rubberized (silicon?) gasket in place on the bike and just used some Permatex black RTV sealant on the outer cover to put it back together. Took me about 1-1/2 hours and maybe 2-3 ounces of oil lost.
Mack
Good Pictures
Aluminum shavings! Are you saying the threads pulled out of the engine block?
Were those bolts locktited in?
Did you pull the cover with the clutch cylinder still installed?
This is a job I need to do but I'm thinking that with the bike still under warranty, lf something
else fails, like the clutch or oil pump chain, it would give the dealer a marginal excuse
to argue about warranty coverage.
Mack
Good Pictures
Aluminum shavings! Are you saying the threads pulled out of the engine block?
Were those bolts locktited in?
Did you pull the cover with the clutch cylinder still installed?
This is a job I need to do but I'm thinking that with the bike still under warranty, lf something
else fails, like the clutch or oil pump chain, it would give the dealer a marginal excuse
to argue about warranty coverage.
I don't know if the threads were buggered or if it is left over machining. Anyway, I didn't want that threading junk in the bolt holes nor the engine so I blew out the debris. There were some aluminum spirals on a couple of the bolts though. If I had the proper M6 bottoming tap, I may have used it to clean them up. They came out a bit hard on the bottom side and I was afraid two were going to snap off as they are aluminum, but they came out. The new ones went back in much easier and torqued up nicely, although I only went to 3nm and 45 degrees with another round at maybe 15-20 degrees after that. I wasn't too cool about 90 degrees after the initial 3nm (i.e. 26 inch/pounds is what I used on my 1/4" driver clicker.) as they felt a bit tight. I got a better feel off my T-handle T-30 driver for tightness as they are more like "hand tight.". No locktite seen on mine.
I left the clutch cylinder on. No need to remove it. Just make sure that half ball's flat side is facing the clutch stack and doesn't spin around to where the ball part is pushing on it. You can see the flat side and the wear spot on the ball when you look at it.
My cam chain felt very snug. Bike hasn't been ridden in a month so I expected the cam chain tensioner would have lost pressure and maybe there would have been some slack. Not the case which is good I guess.
I was going to post a photo of the ball with the wear spot but seems I hit my gallery max allowable limit of 5MB.
Great job Mack. Thanks much for the post and stellar pics. My only trepidation is the little half ball piece inside the clutch cover. Not sure I fully understand what I need to do. Am hoping it will become apparent once I perform the work myself. Wish you hadn't hit the gallery limit for your pictures!
Did mine today
one thing I notices was the timing change had a bit of slack on the bottom side and the bottom tensioner also had play .. Top chain and tensioner were tight. Is it normal to have play on the back side of this timing chain?
Thanks
Kevin
Did mine today
one thing I notices was the timing change had a bit of slack on the bottom side and the bottom tensioner also had play .. Top chain and tensioner were tight. Is it normal to have play on the back side of this timing chain?
Hey,... I've been away from this forum for a while. Came here today to see if there were any new tires for the GT, and found this thread.
Like Robert and some others, my 07' GT grenaded, and well,... I just haven't ridden it as much as it deserves and I expected to be able to do. That's mainly, because of my fear of getting stranded yet again. (http://www.k-bikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20035). In any case, some friends and I (also on GTs) are planning a 14-day trip to the South West (including - shudder - Lee Vining ) and end up at Miller Park for the SBK & AMA Pro races before heading home again.
I like my dealer. They treat me real good, but IMHO, BMW & BMWNA just haven't stood up to be the "cut above" manufacturer they should be. Those two don't treat their dealers and customers as if they are important as long term investements.
Anyway, glad to see there is another potential "fix" to the chain jumping problem. I just hope try number 3 it is a more permanent one. Think I'll call the dealer about this and if they balk at covering the parts & labor, I'll do it myself (like the FD issues as well). I hadn't heard of the chain skipping at high speeds. Has that happened? In my case and some others I know of, it's something that has happened during the starting process at very low RPMs - probably when the hydraulic tensioner isn't pumped up. My biggest worry is if I heard in another thread that somebody's new chain guard disintegrated and caused more problems? True? Oh Lord. I'll be following your excellant examples.
FYI, like GMack, I've fallen in love with the S1000RR as a well engineered product that's a ton of fun, but it's no sports tourer. I've spent darned near 10K miles on that beast this past year and am loving every minute of it. And yes, BMWNA pulled another boner by not putting a "drop sensor" on the bike to begin with - like even the cheapest sports bikes have at no extra cost. I ordered and bought it myself with the original order and of course had the dealer install it because it needs to be "programmed" into the ECU when installed. Later this fall, (after BMW was actually humbled and pressured to put it on as standard equipment for June 10' models and newer) my dealer, not BMWNA gave me a refund.
....FYI, like GMack, I've fallen in love with the S1000RR as a well engineered product that's a ton of fun, but it's no sports tourer. I've spent darned near 10K miles on that beast this past year and am loving every minute of it.
Pretty much my feelings about the S1000RR too. The GT just doesn't get ridden as much as the S1000RR. I suspect a lot of it is low weight and it acts more like a motorcycle should by not being so bloated. Might be a bit of fear the old GT might blow up too or leave me stranded awaiting a tow truck. If BMW would design the S thing to the body style of the Ducati ST4 tourer they may have something. If that Egan guy could set trans-USA time records on the ST4 surely the BMW could if they'd set it up as a sport tourer in a tight and lightweight package.
Funny how one gets molded into the S though. I thought, "No way at my age." but it didn't hold true for some reason and my Ducati Streetfighter S was a horrible fit for me and the engine was miserable on surging at 2,800 RPM. After 3,500 miles, either I fit the S1000RR or it fit me. Don't know what happened, but we just clicked at that mileage for some reason and I didn't want to get off it as much. Everything up to then was like "What the hell am I doing?" or "What am I trying to prove?" Does get a bit confusing going between the two bikes though as far as controls and even ergos on riding. Least I never get that heavy "Opps. Thar she goes and crash feeling" on the S1000RR like on the GT, or what I see some Harley guys do at times that results in their one-legged hop when they fall over. Mass always wins with Mother Earth.
Besides, the S1000RR is easier to get onto the sidewalk at the local Walgreen's drugstore and I can yell at the other old pharts to "Get outta my way. I'm here to get my drugs - and I'm inna hurry too!" Salesgirl said the manager called me an "Old juvenile delinquent, but he's just jealous too."
.... but IMHO, BMW & BMWNA just haven't stood up to be the "cut above" manufacturer they should be. Those two don't treat their dealers and customers as if they are important as long term investements.
..... In my case and some others I know of, it's something that has happened during the starting process at very low RPMs - probably when the hydraulic tensioner isn't pumped up. My biggest worry is if I heard in another thread that somebody's new chain guard disintegrated and caused more problems? True? Oh Lord. I'll be following your excellant examples.....
I agree with the low rpm thing. I have not heard of one disintegrating at high rmp / speed.
Your comment on the guard has my interest perked though. Can you point to a thread that it has happened. Did some one really experience this? I just put the thing in but major projects and weather have kept me off the road so....is it really happening or just a thought and hearsay?
This post gives the complete parts list for the Cam Chain Tooth Jump Guard fix. These part #'s fit all Slant/4 bikes (K12 & K13 S, R, GT) for all years.
1. Quantity: 1 - 11 31 8 526 932
CHAIN TOOTH-JUMP GUARD
Price: $6.70
part # 17 in the pic below
2. Quantity: 1 - 11 14 7 727 974 - OPTIONAL
GASKET
Price: $25.43
part # 2 in the pic below
3. Quantity: 17 - 11 13 7 676 132
ISA SCREW M6 x 25
Price: $1.80
part # 3 in the pic below
4. Quantity: 1 - 11 14 7 678 478
ISA SCREW M6 x 20
Price: $2.00
part # 4 in the pic below
Total parts cost is $39.30 + tax, or $64.73 + tax with the gasket.
For reference, the upgraded cam chain tensioner is shown below:
1. Quantity: 1 − 11 31 7 717 288
SET OF CHAIN TENSIONERS
Price: $124.66
part # 9 in the pic below
What about part # 6 in the pic above? Are these two M6 x 20 screws not replaced? Do they and the external plastic cover (part # 5) simply stay in place when the whole clutch cover is removed?
Yes, the plastic guard can just stay in place. Even if you were to remove the plastic guard those two screws are under very little stress and I'm sure could be reused. Also personally I think you can re-use the stock gasket, it's a pretty sturdy piece and is silicone-coated so it won't stick.
Too late! I am going to another forum and posting that 'I heard of a case where someone heard of a case where...' Soon the 'fact' that the jump guard disintegrates and takes out the engine will be all over the Internet...
The partial qoute above is what I read, and now I think I may have taken it incorrectly in my last post as an alarm (with a question). With all this talk about a new chain jump guard, I thought KJG might be saying a part of his new guard broke off and caused damage. Perhaps he was referring to what I would have previouly called the older chain guides (like parts 13 & 15 in Meese's diagram).
If so, I apologize for any "sky is falling" conclusions, but would like to know for sure.
Ken, thanks for posting the list of parts. I just ordered mine (no gasket).
I'll be opening the bike up sometime next week to do this, and to install a second power outlet direct to battery. And while I'm in there, I can meter my clutch switch and hopefully solve another mystery.
I have one for $19...the price I paid another forum guy here for it.
He didn't use it...so I was going to until my extended warranty picked up the tab for a new chain.
I read the "Replacing right engine block cover" procedure in the RepRom, and have a few dumb newbie mechanic questions:
1. Is this the correct procedure to follow for adding the cam chain guard?
2. Do you normally put something on the gasket when you replace it? The RepRom doesn't say anything about that, but Mack mentioned "thick grease".
3. When you tighten the screws, the RepRom says, "Initial torque, 3 Nm; Final torque, 90 degrees". Does this mean that you tighten the screw to 3 Nm, then tighten 1/4 turn more?
4. Under "Securing clutch slave cylinder", under "Fluids and lubricants", it says "MP 3 paste, High-performance lubricating grease, 07 55 9 062 476". Is this the same as the Optimoly TA paste that I use on the final drive splines? If not, where can I get it?
5. Okay, now that I got the MP 3 grease, where does it get applied? (No silly comments, please.)
2. Some use gasket sealer but normally you shouldn't on the type of gasket that was on mine (silicone coated metal) and I didn't. No leaks.
3. Yes
4. Close enough.
5. I would guess on the point that the slave cylinder contacts the clutch release. But frankly I wouldn't sweat it, that area is bathed in oil and I doubt the grease would be there very long anyway.
BTW note the earlier comment in the thread and make sure that the flat part of the bearing of the clutch slave cylinder is facing the clutch.
Just an FYI...you might have a good replaceable gasket. I didn't since mines been in and out of so much. The one that was in there "might" have been OK to re use but I put a new one in anyway. The new gasket that I was sent was definitely not as good of quality as what some guys are seeing. The new one was cheaper paper synthetic what ever. Any way I needed to use some black gasket sealer in order to get it to stay in place and get the cover back on. No leaks so far.
Good point Robert and just to be clear regarding my earlier comment, the stock gasket is (or at least mine was) a very nice silicone-coated metal piece and as such I think it will in most cases be OK to re-use, in fact a sin to waste it (and IMO, no sealer on these.) But if your bike has been previously worked on and has a paper gasket then I would probably replace it as these usually are not intended for multiple uses.
P.S. And if anyone does need a replacement gasket, save some money and get it from kbmwrs (check his post on the previous page), I have personally inspected and approved it.
I have read the whole thread (on and off and not in one sitting and may have missed something.) Thanks for starting it and keeping the information coming, especially the diagrams.
It may warrant repeating if I did. I spoke to my dealer and installing the new part is now part of the 18K service. If your already passed that service, then you may want to inquire about it.
Has anyone experienced this failure with less than 20K miles on their GT?
Thanks,
-Dennis
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