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Skinny on the Cam chain guard

114K views 247 replies 57 participants last post by  DougM 
#1 ·
Ok so the newer style tensioner is old news by now, so if ya haven't yet its time to get that done, both old and new are hydrolic but the new has holes in the mounting plate and the cap that bolts where the old plate did acts as a reservior. The deal with the "chaintooth jump guard", is pretty simple, remove clutch/crankend cover and it snaps into place over the existing guard casted into the case then held in place with the cover, adding additional protection to keep the chain from skipping a tooth should something cause it to. I should have done all of this myself, but the other day on the phone with the dealer this was new as of last month and the service bulletin was not all that clear as to what held the guard in place so I opted to pay and watch this time, education comes with a tuition price and this one was about two and a half hrs. shop time on the first go, but its only about an hour and a half job, this guy is a clean freak, after finishing he was back there with a can of cleaner in one hand and a fresh micro-fiber cloth in the other removeing any trace he'd been there. They did it on saturday, a good job while I waited so I paid cash and thanked them. The parts, gastet, tensioner kit, guard and one time screws etc. run about two bills plus labor, 400 dallars for the peace of mind that I've done all that can be to this point to prevent cam chain/related failures.
 
#152 ·
M&M's from MAX BMW!

UPS came by today with a small package from MAX BMW. Inside was a bag of M&M's! YAY! I love M&M's!

Oh, by the way, the jump guard and screws were also in there...
I'll be doing the install in the next few weeks. I'll take pics as I go.
Rob
 
#154 ·
Waiting for appointment

I went to my dealer yesterday to work up a new deal on insurance (they saved me a lot), AND to talk to the service guys about this chain jump guard. Of course, thanks to this forum, it was I who was bringing this to their attention for the first time.

Anyway, after one skipping incident and a grenade job the second time, I've decided I'm going to have the dealer instal it, even if the job is simple pimple. Reason,... so if there are any more problems, I can point my finger back at them, as authorized mechanics.

Their labor charges since the beginning of the year jumped to $99/hour and they estimated the job would take 2 hours. Sounds to me, I'm going to be paying ~ $260 + tax for some peace of mind, but I thought I had that before too. :(

We'll see.
 
#155 ·
Rainman said:
Their labor charges since the beginning of the year jumped to $99/hour and they estimated the job would take 2 hours. Sounds to me, I'm going to be paying ~ $260 + tax for some peace of mind, but I thought I had that before too.

2 hours? Really? If so, an oil change there must take 3-4 hours. :wtf:

I didn't even know what I was doing and it didn't take me that long with crummy hand tools (where they use power no doubt). You must be buying their lunch too.


Mack
 
#156 · (Edited)
Two hours? You'd have to try to take all of an hour for the job. Plus I don't see how the fact that a dealer installed the jump guard will provide you any advantage or consideration if a valvetrain failure should occur. BMW offered the part without any comment whatsoever and there's no guarantee from them, either expressed or implied, that the part will fix anything. IOW paying $260 for this trivially simple job may provide a psychological boost but I wouldn't count on much else.
 
#158 ·
smiller said:
.....BMW offered the part without any comment whatsoever and there's no guarantee from them, either expressed or implied, that the part will fix anything. ....
I love this. Just so appropriate. :rotf: :D

And agreed. Simple easy fix that takes little time. But if you're happy with your dealer or trying to keep some sort of relationship going with them....eh....maybe pay it. But I sure think that I would do my best to educate them first. In the grand scheme of this bike two hours labor is chump change. But just on principle it's wrong.

So sad really that all too often it seems to be that WE the riders are the ones educating the techs and dealers.
 
#160 ·
Ya know, as cheap as this plastic thing is, if the cam chain is ever that loose to jump a tooth, one would think it would destroy this plastic piece in very short order as well as the engine. :confused:

We may all be beta testers yet again. Who will be their first to say, "I got the cam guard and it still blew up." Hopefully not.


Mack
 
#161 ·
GMack said:
Ya know, as cheap as this plastic thing is, if the cam chain is ever that loose to jump a tooth, one would think it would destroy this plastic piece in very short order as well as the engine. :confused:
If the chain jumps a tooth then yeah, a lot of bad things can happen, but I think the purpose of the jump guard is to sit very close to the chain so that the chain cannot lift off the sprocket enough to slip, and in that case there wouldn't be much force generated. In fact it should rarely if ever even touch the guard.

My guess is that BMW found the root of the valve drive problems to be the cam chain getting into a mode where it starts to resonate or whip, causing it to lift enough on the rather small drive sprocket to allow it to skip. This may occur most often during starting when the hydraulic tensioner isn't up to full pressure (as we have seen) but might have the potential of happening at other speeds depending on a combination of exactly the right (or wrong) conditions. I think the guard is designed to come into play on these relatively rare occasions and, because it sits just a few mm from the chain, prevent it from lifting enough to skip just for the small number of milliseconds where pressure on the sprocket is absent. Thus, the plastic is just there to be used very rarely but play a big role when it needs to, and otherwise should see little or no routine wear. It will be interesting to inspect these once they have been installed for a large number of miles, will we see scrape marks on some but not others?

Anyway, that's my theory. I hope it's not disproved by someone's cam drive blowing up next week. :wtf:
 
#162 ·
Well, I installed my chain guard over the weekend and it couldn't have been easier. To have a dealer quote two hours of billable labor is insanity. An oil change takes me longer. I would have accomplished the task in 30-45 minutes had I not been taking pictures to document my work as well as detailing the bike and waxing the Tupperware.

A few observations:

1. I ordered the gasket but ended up NOT using it. If I were to do this again, I would hold off on that part.

2. I had no problem removing the bolts. In fact, I found them to be installed from the factory with very little torque at all. I usually find that Gunther over tightens everything. For something that's snugged down with such little torque, why again are we buying new bolts?

3. I performed the work with the bike on the sidestand and lost maybe 1/2 teaspoon of oil. Hats off to Ken for this bit of common sense advice.

4. I need to buy a torque wrench that's calibrated in inch/lbs as my big brute didn't go down that low. Had to rely on a t-handle driver and 50+ years of working on cars and bikes.

5. My chain was tight as can be. Also noted I had the upgraded tensioner installed from the factory. My GT was built in March 2008.

Easy, easy install. My thanks to all who contributed on this thread.
 
#163 ·
smiller said:
I think the purpose of the jump guard is to sit very close to the chain so that the chain cannot lift off the sprocket enough to slip, and in that case there wouldn't be much force generated. In fact it should rarely if ever even touch the guard.
Exactly.

For most bikes, it's simply cheap insurance against a known, but still rather rare problem.

But for any time that it saves a rider from a cratered engine, it's worth a lot more than $40 and 1/2 hour to install it.

I only wish some of the known failures had already had this part in place, thus saving their owners from a lot of heartache and expense (Hi, Robert
).
 
#164 ·
Meese said:
Exactly.

For most bikes, it's simply cheap insurance against a known, but still rather rare problem.

But for any time that it saves a rider from a cratered engine, it's worth a lot more than $40 and 1/2 hour to install it.

I only wish some of the known failures had already had this part in place, thus saving their owners from a lot of heartache and expense (Hi, Robert
).
Yeah well I may have been one of the first guinea pigs when it comes to this particular problem.....but I know for a fact that you've experienced more than a few "wish you would have known" before hand snafus yourself. :D
 
#165 ·
^^^ What he said.

It makes no F*^kn difference whether the part is $7 or $700, or whether I am a skilled mechanic or not. That is not the question - for me. I KNOW I could do the job myself. I've built and rebuilt entire engines, trannys, I can sync multiple carbs, I've spoked my own wheels, I always add my own mods, and I change my own tires. But I'm leaving the internals on this bike - which is known to mis-behave - alone until the extended warranty runs out.

Some of you seem to be looking only at the superficial cost of a piece of plastic, some nuts and a gasket, then comparing it to the rate quoted by my dealer, and their estimated time to do a job they have never done before, and then saying that that estimate is outrageous.

Well, let me defend them, and myself. After I told them about the part, they had to look up "the bulletin". Anybody here see it? I was told "the bulletin" said the part was not to be installed until the new tensioner, new chain, new chain guides, (and probably new sprockets) were installed. I had to remind them they had already done that on the last engine grenade confrontation, and then they agreed - they don't have to do that extra "stuff" and they will stand behind their work. They are not stupid, they are just ignorant, and inexperienced with this new procedure. I'm positive that if they finish the job in 30 minutes, they are going to only charge me for 30 minutes, or an hour if that's the minimum. I don't really care how long it actually takes them. It sure beats a $1,300 estimate that "the bulletin" rang up.

My particular issue is to try and regain some confidence that this fix keeps the chain on the bike and I can enjoy a long awaited vacation to the SouthWest without incident, and then take more trips until the FD lets loose. :D And while Meese correctly said that this issue is rare, with this specific motorcycle I've been "lucky" to only have my chain skip TWICE. And the last time it was with catastrophic consequences. The "lucky" part is I have a local dealer who doesn't pick up stranded bikers in Lost Wages and then ream them like Robert had done to him. They have saved my butt so far because I let them work on the internals on this bike, I don't insulted them, and we have built a relationship I value and don't want to throw away, just because I could do the job for $200 less than they could.

For all those brave souls (on the internut) who say "let 'ol BMW try that with me, I'll sue them". I laugh in your face partner. Just try it - on your dime. I don't have time to waste. I want to ride. Life is short enough.

For me, $300 is cheap insurance. What's that, a set of tires on my race bike that last a few laps? Oh wait, I'm mounting $300 worth of Pilot Road 3's on the GT before I even leave town. You see, I'm counting on the fact one of their certified mechanics is going to do the work, and my dealer will protect me by standing behind that work.

Hopefully, I can then relax on my 4,000 mile trip next month, and not worry that I am risking having the sleezeballs from Lost Wages come pick me up from the north rim of the Grand Canyon. I'll trailer it home before they even touch it.

In summary, I'll watch and wait, and see if this solves this particular issue for good or not. I promise I'll be first to let you know if I have further problems, and I'll let you know if I am satisfied with the bill when my dealer actually does the work.

Sorry for the long rant. Some of you are just precious. :hypocrite
 
#166 ·
I'm on the "I'll do it myself" side of the discussion. That's me, I always try unless I need specialized equipment, and sometimes I buy special tools (it's an excuse, I also love to buy tools).
That being said, I have to say that I also agree with the above from Rainman's very well written post. If I had a good relationship with a shop, I might also have them do the work. But this is a very different situation than normal maintenance or repair. There is all sorts of potential liability involved, and there is no way to know ahead of time how things are going to turn out.
Past history (like two failures) would probably make me opt to spend the money and let the dealer do it, especially if I already trusted them and they were nearby. I have a couple of bad experiences with a shop nearby, so in my mind doing it myself is an attractive option, and the one I'm going with. This is going to be different for everybody.
 
#167 ·
Damnnnnnn Rainman put some fear into me you did...not really about your topic per se, but about the BMW dealer in Lost Wages.....see, I'll be heading to Torrey and then the North Rim in a few weeks. Now I'm worried. :yeow:

:teeth

Is this the BMW dealer that is also a HD dealer?

Seems I was taken there (years ago) with my old '93 K1100RS that stopped running and they swapped out a fuel filter (without draining the tank) for me within minutes of arrival. It was done in no time.
 
#170 ·
smiller said:
All slant-K bikes from 2008-on have the updated tensioner.
I have an '08, manufactured in Sept. '07, that did not have the updated air box, nor the updated tensioner. The new tensioner was introduced the 38th week of 2007 per the bulletin.

My gizmo arrived yesterday and I plan to install it next week sometime.

I really hope this is the fix, because I do love this bike.
 
#172 ·
Thanks for the answer people and now all I have to do is order the parts for the chain guard. It is for peace of mind and cheap insurance only plus does not look hard to put in so we will give it a try.
Funny how all my ricers with the cam chain on the side of the engine has them but beemer elected to disclude one.
 
#174 · (Edited)
kbmwrs said:
Damnnnnnn Rainman put some fear into me you did...not really about your topic per se, but about the BMW dealer in Lost Wages.....see, I'll be heading to Torrey and then the North Rim in a few weeks. Now I'm worried. :yeow:

:teeth

Is this the BMW dealer that is also a HD dealer?

Seems I was taken there (years ago) with my old '93 K1100RS that stopped running and they swapped out a fuel filter (without draining the tank) for me within minutes of arrival. It was done in no time.
If I scared you, Robert scared me. I'll point you towards his thread and experience with said dealer: http://www.k-bikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21210

The difference between his experience and mine is purely the people. My dealer stood up for me. His "guest" dealer didn't. I'm just saying I don't want to be put in a situation of letting any service manager tell "der mommy" that this is all my fault. :manure:

Oh, and my dealer is installing the chain jump guide on Tuesday.
 
#175 ·
What to do?

This is a long thread and I think I have my head around most of it. I do have a few questions on the related cam chain tensioner.

My bike, early 2007 GT. Delivered sept 2007. (Not an 06 model)

In feb 2009 at 18K, I had the valves done and then the Cam Chain Tensioner, for free, I was having the startup "schreech". They had to do valves, er shims at this time. A bit later there is a service bulletin to not do the tensioner after 12k. I never did any thing about this, new tensioner after 12k. What would one have done anyway? Rip it out? Replace more parts?

Now my bike is reaching 30k, it runs fine. SO my questions is

DO I just do the chain guard and leave the tensioner alone?

IS there anything I should do about the teniosner that the dealer put in at 18k? IS there a newer tenisoner after the feb 2009 one?

SHould I just take it to the dealer and have them look at the chains/tensioner and stuff and do the chain guard at the same time?

If I just do the jump guard thing mysel, anything to look for that may indicate that putting in the new tensioner after 12k was causing probs?
 
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