Ok so the newer style tensioner is old news by now, so if ya haven't yet its time to get that done, both old and new are hydrolic but the new has holes in the mounting plate and the cap that bolts where the old plate did acts as a reservior. The deal with the "chaintooth jump guard", is pretty simple, remove clutch/crankend cover and it snaps into place over the existing guard casted into the case then held in place with the cover, adding additional protection to keep the chain from skipping a tooth should something cause it to. I should have done all of this myself, but the other day on the phone with the dealer this was new as of last month and the service bulletin was not all that clear as to what held the guard in place so I opted to pay and watch this time, education comes with a tuition price and this one was about two and a half hrs. shop time on the first go, but its only about an hour and a half job, this guy is a clean freak, after finishing he was back there with a can of cleaner in one hand and a fresh micro-fiber cloth in the other removeing any trace he'd been there. They did it on saturday, a good job while I waited so I paid cash and thanked them. The parts, gastet, tensioner kit, guard and one time screws etc. run about two bills plus labor, 400 dallars for the peace of mind that I've done all that can be to this point to prevent cam chain/related failures.
GMack, thanks! I will read that post. I just spoke to the dealer and they said "don't ride it." They said I could ride it in to replace the hydraulic cylinder at no cost. I spoke with Parts and they do not have the Tensioner Kit in stock and the reservoir that needs to replaced is not a separate part (May not be ordered on it's own). I know it's good practice to only stock what you must, but with K1200/1300 S, GT, R and LT all suffering the same issue for multiple model years wouldn't this part be worth stocking?
... I know it's good practice to only stock what you must, but with K1200/1300 S, GT, R and LT all suffering the same issue for multiple model years wouldn't this part be worth stocking?
But this would imply that common sense was some where involved. This is BMW. :spank1:
On a some what different note. CNBC had one of those inside the corporate machine things on the other night and it was BMW. If you guys haven't had a chance to see it I'm sure it will be rerun.
When you see the levels of BS and bureaucracy that Der Fatherland has you'll understand why we have to deal with so much erroneous nonsense. Hell, it takes years of research and multiple people, departments, meetings, panels, presentations etc..... spending millions of $$$'s just to develop and approve the F'ing BEEP sound that one single thing makes. Like a door, lights, or key alarm. Seriously. I was amazed, but not surprised. And just kept thinking Ah HA! Now I get it! :wtf:
I'm waiting for his third blog report that says, "This other crap is now replaced with this." :nerd:
I'm still trying to figure out if BMW is guilty of over-designing or under-designing. More likely, "Let's ignore it and go on to something else - and quickly." BMW must have taken lessons from AMF and Harley's "How to do stuff wrong" book written in the 80's. In 30 years they might catch up in reliability...maybe.
Hey Robert, go read the K1600 forum. It's getting to be a hoot there and not in the good sense! Chrome trim falling off. Water pump leaks. Pulls to the left. Excessive heat. Bluetooth linking issues. Navigator IV reporting 2031 as the date. Then the guy who low-sided it and totaled the bike out too. A second one down now has engine block scrapes and might be totaled too. They want someone to make sliders for the bike but the guy needs 50 to make it worthwhile. They will need those BMW Patrol bike crash bars they keep it up. BMW wanted to show the engine off via exposing it to the elements, and not in a good way. Thing needs an engine airbag as those would be cheaper than a $13,500 curb feeler.
Local dealer said a couple of days ago that "The engine is $13.500 so not to drop it because a side case and a muffler dent will total it out with the insurance." Fantastic design! No engine case parts available. The engine is the guard, and it's disposable too. Cripes. Cletus's in-bred brother is working at der Fatherland.
Time for those crash dummies to get a job at BMW Motorrad.
I know it's good practice to only stock what you must, but with K1200/1300 S, GT, R and LT all suffering the same issue for multiple model years wouldn't this part be worth stocking?
Same thing with the rear suspension link. A formal recall affecting many thousands of bikes over several model years and my dealers says 'I have to order it.' :wtf:
What amazed me is when I went to order the "One Time Use" aluminum bolts, not one of the four dealers I called had them in stock. A couple of the dealers didn't seem to know you could only use them one time............
Picked up the guard and the gasket yesterday, but the bolts had to be ordered in. I'll be doing this install soon. Even though my 08 has the newer style tensioner and has never made any noise that I've noticed, I figure this is just way too cheap of insurance against a potential major headache.
Thanks to all those who put the work into digging up the info on this.
What amazed me is when I went to order the "One Time Use" aluminum bolts, not one of the four dealers I called had them in stock. A couple of the dealers didn't seem to know you could only use them one time............
... Even though my 08 has the newer style tensioner and has never made any noise that I've noticed, I figure this is just way too cheap of insurance against a potential major headache.
Thanks to all those who put the work into digging up the info on this.
I got the bike to the dealer today for one last big, I mean big 60000 klms scheduled maintenance, before the end of the warranty. I didn't even cost me a grand. 925.00 . I got the chain guard (10.85) installed (labor for 45 min 56.00) and those tiny 18 bolts at 2.20 each sure got my blood pumping. Rear brake fluid flush, coolant change, I also got the valve checked, oil change, spark plugs change(25.72 ea) and the rest visuals faults reading, service reset..
I almost got a new K16GTL while I was there. But I resisted. And it was the fastest color...dark blue.
The tech who did the work on my bike was younger than my son, at least I saw him use a torque wrench. But after getting home, about 125 miles away, I noticed that he forgot to put my R&G frame sliders back on :wtf: . Can't have it all I guess.
If it wasn't that I really like this bike I could have decided to switch for the k16gtl easely. My wife won't even talk me out of it. May be next time.
Very interesting thread. Thanks to those who have contributed! I have a early 2007 K12GT with 12K miles. I just had the 12K service done and had ordered the jump guard but decided against it ($350 with labor and wasn't sure if I was going to keep the GT long term).
I'm now likely to keep this bike and will get the upgrades done at the 18K service when they check if the valves need adjusting. Given my lower mileage, I'm thinking that I should get the upgraded tensioner, jump guard and that's it. Of course, I'll have the tech look at the chain to see if it has any slack that could have lead to any damage to the chain but with my low mileage, I don't expect that.
Or is it suggested to change out the chain too while you're in there? Then what about the oil chain?
Don't know how they arrive at $350 for the jump guard. Should be around $75 with the bolts and guard, and no more than an hour labor at most. You may not even need the gasket as some of us left the old one in.
Personally, I would put the APE Racing manual tensioner thing on and forget the BMW one. If that plunger BMW uses to press on the guard should ever lose oil in it via their check valve (mine did it while flushing out with solvent, and it happened to Paul Glaves in BMW ON too on another bike), then the guard can move out and the chain really goes loose. Gets loose enough and you wad the engine. The bike seems to lose a lot of oil pressure at idle which can't be good. I notice mine seems to idle far better and slow speed maneuvers are much improved since the manual adjuster went in. There must be some serious valve timing issues the way the designed it occurring at idle or recurrent low-pressure in their hydraulic tensioner system as it is.
As Mack said, $350 for a jump guard install is extremely high and not sure how one could stretch the job to justify that. Perhaps the individual who quoted you that price just didn't really know what they were talking about... that's not good in itself, but better than the alternative...
You didn't say whether you have the old or new design tensioner (a 2007 bike could have had either from the factory.) If you have the old one I'd definitely change it out and if you have to pay full boat for this you might want to go straight to the manual tensioner. The exception to this would be if you have an extended warranty, and if you do go with the manual unit and are not mechanically experienced I would suggest getting a professional to adjust it as a mistake there could be just as costly as anything the auto tensioner could cause. If you already have the upgraded tensioner then I think the manual tensioner is optional as the new tensioner and jump guard should prevent any problems. I do not think the manual tensioner will make any difference in how the bike runs at low speeds.
As to replacing the existing chain... there will be those who disagree but at 12k and since it sounds like you'll be paying the full dealer cost (and at your dealer that sounds like a lot ) then I don't think it's likely to be cost effective. I haven't heard of a single case where a chain actually failed and it seems that most/all of the cases of valvetrain trouble in the past have been due to a jumped chain which then caused subsequent damage. I'd inspect the chain, sprocket, and guides for any obvious damage and certainly replace parts if any damage is evident, otherwise I would personally consider it optional.
It basically comes down to how much do you want to pay for 'just in case.' The potential problem with the slant-K cam drive should not be ignored and you should definitely install the new-design BMW tensioner (if you do not already have it) and the jump guard, no question. Beyond that is up to the size of your wallet and fear factor.
I wouldn't hold my breath. Outright safety-related items (such as brake lines or suspension parts as we've seen so far) tend to get a lot more attention than engine-related issues. And since this involves internal engine work it would be a pretty expensive recall program, plus we don't know if the actual failure rate is really that high (meaning high enough to justify a recall). My guess is that this won't end as a full-blown recall unless BMW thinks that they really, really, really have to do it, and I haven't seen any evidence of them looking at it that way so far. I'd like to be proven wrong, but...
Just had my chain jump teeth and jam the engine without doing any damage except financial. Happened while engine was powering down. Service manager said the bulletin for the chain jump guard was marked 'recommended', so it was pretty much ignored by dealers. He just found out about it with my bike, their first. The new chain tensioner must only be installed along with the jump guard.
The guard was developed by BMW in response to chain jumping caused by the new tensioner, only they didn't want it to get into recall territory, so marked the bulletin 'recommended.'
So if you have the new tensioner, run, don't walk to the dealer and buy and install the jump guard.
Re. what to change.
When reading posts from unfortunate members that have experienced problems with the chain jumping and causing damage to the engine, it seems as if the combination of replacing the tensioner while keeping the old chain is poison.
In BMWs bulletin they state that if milage exceeds 12k miles, replacing the tensioner is not recommended. My interpretation of this statement is that for higher than 12k, change the chain along with tensioner. This also seems to be in line with members experience. The jumpguard is a fairly new item, and I have not read any reports where bikes with the jumpguard have had any problems.
If this was my bike I would go for a new chain, tensioner, chain sliders and jump guard, A few bucks more, but well worth it.
For the chain to the oilpump I would merely check for proper tension, which is adjusted manually.
My 2c
Just to add a data point. 2010 K1300GT (purchased in March 2010). 34k miles.
About a month ago, the bike had been sitting for 4 days (unusual), and when I started it up, I heard a "racket" that hadn't been heard by me before. "So, that's what that sounds like." Confirmed it with the service manager where the bike is serviced, so I planned on getting the guard installed. As fate would have it, I heard it again about a week later. No damage, but I got the parts. 18 screws and the jump guard. No gasket. You read about enough of these repairs and you get the idea of what you're up against.
On the GT, you also have to unscrew the belly pan in the rear, remove the foam block (no biggie) and take off the heat shield (so you can get at the screws under it). What I don't recall reading is that you have to fuss the clutch/crankshaft cover off of the locating pins. DIdn't want to use a screw driver as a pry bar and mess up the gasket that I figured I could re-use. Once that cover was off, the guard went into place. I did note that the chain was a bit slack and had to work the slack back up off the gear to the tensioner to get the guard on. Got to thinking "So, that is an interesting amount of slack. Half-moon piece in the cover housing stayed right were it was supposed to be, no grease needed. Worked the cover back on, got the tightening sequence in front of me, and put in the new bolts. When I finished tightening the bolts to the required torque, went through them again and found most of them needing a bit more to get the torque set right. Then, 90º on each, and done. Started the bike, no noise, no oil leaks. In all, probably spent an hour with the hard parts being getting the clutch cover off and then getting the right-side tupperware back in place.
From what I understand, the chain guard is only to prevent the chain from jumping in case the tensioner fails at start up (oil pressure has leaked down). So if I had the noise on start up, my first inclination would be to fix the tensioner, not just install the guard. How long will the guard last if the chain is constantly on it (preventing a jumped chain) when you start it? Or at least every time it would make the noise. When they installed my jump guard, they installed the updated tensioner as well, even though I don't recall ever having the noise at start up (although by the time I start up, my helmet usually is already on and my hearing sucks anyways, although probably not so bad I wouldn't hear the noise w or w/o the helmet)
Gilly
I agree with Gilly, if you are hearing cam chain noise at startup on a 1300 then you may have a problem with the tensioner (maybe sticking or whatever) and if so that needs to be fixed. The jump guard is a last resort protection, not a fix for a noise problem.
I installed the jump guard and a manual tensioner from APE racing. I never heard that dreaded noise, and I don't want to. That noise means something is making contact with something it shouldn't.
My personal opinion is that the upgraded tensioner is an attempt to fix the problem at one source, but the fix isn't a good fix. Keep in mind that most of the time, there isn't an issue. It a rare occurrence that has disastrous results. The brick motor had an oil-activated tensioner as well, but also had a ratchet mechanism that wouldn't let the chain tension rails retract all the way when the tensioner lost all of its oil. Why BMW doesn't go back to that kind of design is a question I can't answer.
The manual adjustor from APE is fine, and if installed correctly and the tension is set right, you don't need the jump guard. If you don't set it right, you can have issues. If set too loose, the jump guard will help prevent the crankshaft gear from jumping in the chain. Again, my opinion, but if you're putting in the manual tensioner, might as well put in the jump guard.
For me, the jump guard is a valid solution as it keeps the chain from rising too far off the crankshaft gear. And, no fussing from either BMW within the normal warranty or the third-party extended warranty company about aftermarket parts.
I think I need to do something on my bike about this. I parked it for 2 weeks, that is the longest I have ever parked this bike in 2 1/2 years (its a 09 GT) and when I started it, it made some awful noises for 5~7 seconds, I almost shut it down it was so bad. It was 34 degrees when I started it and thought that was the reason at first, then as I was riding it I started thinking, since it was parked for 2 weeks it likely lost ALL oil in the galleries and needed a few seconds to rebuild oil pressure, that and the temperature which likely slowed oil pressure building, means that my chain was very loose. When I got the gas station, it restarted just fine no noises and it was fine all week.
I guess I need to figure out jump guard or manual tensioner, both my cars have manual tensioners and they need to set to correct tension (9/32" deflection with 44lbs. lifting on timing chain, requiring special tools to set it), why is there not something similar for this tensioner ? that would make me feel better that I am not too tight or too loose.
Put my jump guard on today. Took maybe an hour but I took off all the Tupperware to clean the motor underneath and run down a intermediate open circuit on my right moto light. All the write ups I've seen say you need 3 of the short bolts... You only need one. the other 2 short bolts are for the plastic foot guard and I think those can be reused with out fear or trepidation. I reused the silicon gasket, the new one from BMW was paper so, I'll leave it on the shelf as a spare.
My torque wrench only does full inch pounds, no fractions so I set it to 26 and gave them all about 100 deg stretch. No leaks noted.
The bike has 20000 miles on her. The valves were checked at 17 and all were within spec. The timing chain felt tight, no slop or play but for a few bucks, it is worth the piece of mind installing the guard!
Thanks to all who have posted part numbers and how-too's! :clap:
I never found the loose wire for the motolight...but it is staying on now so we will see...
I think I need to do something on my bike about this. I parked it for 2 weeks, that is the longest I have ever parked this bike in 2 1/2 years (its a 09 GT) and when I started it, it made some awful noises for 5~7 seconds, I almost shut it down it was so bad. It was 34 degrees when I started it and thought that was the reason at first, then as I was riding it I started thinking, since it was parked for 2 weeks it likely lost ALL oil in the galleries and needed a few seconds to rebuild oil pressure, that and the temperature which likely slowed oil pressure building, means that my chain was very loose. When I got the gas station, it restarted just fine no noises and it was fine all week.
I guess I need to figure out jump guard or manual tensioner, both my cars have manual tensioners and they need to set to correct tension (9/32" deflection with 44lbs. lifting on timing chain, requiring special tools to set it), why is there not something similar for this tensioner ? that would make me feel better that I am not too tight or too loose.
I installed my jump guard today and the APE manual tensioner.
Hope I did things right! No leaks from the clutch cover, no snapped bolts, and I think I got the tensioner adjusted correctly. I adjusted it by sound / feel. You can feel things slapping around a bit more when you loose the adjuster. Somewhere about a half turn quieter, and I called it good.
No more ball bearings on start up.
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