IBR slams BMW - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 2007, 2:09 pm Thread Starter
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IBR slams BMW

Just ran across this:

The Tarnished Blue and White Roundel
A disproportionate number of the DNFs fall on the shoulders of BMW. BMW
failed several riders, demonstrating that they are no longer capable of
building motorcycles that can run 11,000 miles in 11 days without a
significant fraction experiencing a catastrophic drivetrain failure of
some sort. BMW of North America has requested contact information for
the riders who experienced failures. The riders BMW should be more
concerned about are the thousands of unsuspecting souls who will
breakdown in the future because the company has lost its previous
ability to either design durable drivetrain components or (more likely)
adequately monitor production and assembly quality. It's way, way past
time for BMW to fix its drivetrain reliability problems. A good start
might be to acknowledge that there is a problem.

For the entire article:
http://www.ironbuttrally.com/IBR/2007.cfm?DocID=45

Doug Turner
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 2007, 5:23 pm
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What were the catastrophic drivetrain failures?

Interesting...

This is something that REALLY would hit BMW motorcycles in the pocketbook.

I honestly think they couldn't care less about the R and S bikes with failed transmissions,

But mess with the owners of the touring motorcycles...
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 2007, 5:32 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCW
What were the catastrophic drivetrain failures?
rear end failures.

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 2007, 6:15 pm
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Apparently 4 out of 40 BMW'w entered in the IBR had drive train failures. They were all R1200RT's. And of the 40 BMW's, Eight were R1200RT's - so that means that 50 % of the RT's had a failure.

Not good. Not a representative survey, but it sure looks ugly.

BMW better get their sh..t together or quickly loose their reputation for long distance quality. And without that, lets face it, they lose a great deal of their brand value.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 2007, 6:47 pm
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This combined with the MOA-calculated 5%(I believe) final drive failures on the LT's and the issue is worse. They had a problem, redesigned the new one, and they still can't get the loading right.

The R1200GS's entered, with a different drive ratio, seem to be fine.


Or, as someone else mentioned, maybe it's time for belt drives...



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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 2007, 7:14 pm
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IBR slams BMW ??

Looks to me like it's self inflicted.

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 2007, 8:11 pm
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Always wait out for the facts. In my business we call it "swirl" and it does more damage to any business if someone doesn't get a handle on what the issues are, present them accurately and lay out the facts with a risk plan that resolves the issue. What the IBR published is all about the swirl and an attempt to get everyone emotionally charged. Take a deep breath and watch how this unfolds.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 2007, 10:28 pm
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Even before the 2007 rally, BMW became known for puking rear drives.

That may be the reason BMW is looking to Taiwan instead of China for some of their parts as Taiwan has better manufacturing facilities. If not, they may need to look to Korea. As I mentioned elsewhere, Timken Bearing moved their manufacturing to China from the USA in the early 90's. Wouldn't be surprised of FAG and INA Bearings also moved to China as well.

I have a feeling the design may be correct, just the parts are inferior (sort of like that old Japanese pot-metal of the 60's and 70's). Maybe poor heat treating or chroming. Why else add back a magnet drain plug after they figured they didn't need it on the first "no maintenance" finals? Then it could also be the assembler who needs to shim and measure the drives for assembly and is setting them too tight like the electrical gorilla who likes to tighten T-wraps on the electrical wire looms and short or cut them. Who knows, but BMW AG changing suppliers spells something, hopefully a good something.

Maybe the 2009 IBR will show some improvement in the final failure rate, but I would be surprised if BMW gets it corrected by them as it takes them some time just to make a correction (like the surge of the old RTs). One thing that sort of surprised me was the dates on the computerized stuff in my 2006 GT that I read on the GS-911 diagnostic tool. Some of the stuff was made in April of 2004 (2 full years!) so it didn't get put on the bike until 2006? If they do this with their rubber seals as well, ugh!

Maybe 2011 will be their no-failure final drive IBR rally. One can hope.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 5th, 2007, 11:40 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razel
This combined with the MOA-calculated 5%(I believe) final drive failures on the LT's and the issue is worse. They had a problem, redesigned the new one, and they still can't get the loading right.

The R1200GS's entered, with a different drive ratio, seem to be fine.


Or, as someone else mentioned, maybe it's time for belt drives...
My riding friend Rick Neeley finished 55th on his R1200GS ADV. Because he finished it isn't widely noted his ADV final drive was replaced by BMW Las Vegas with two days left in the Rally and fortunately he had enough bonus points to count as a finisher. He's disappointed because he missed 18 hours of bonus collecting and would have finished much higher.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old Sep 6th, 2007, 6:11 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beavtm
Always wait out for the facts. What the IBR published is all about the swirl and an attempt to get everyone emotionally charged. Take a deep breath and watch how this unfolds.
This isn't swirl, and it has been unfolding for a long, long time. This issue first surfaced in the long-distance community over 3 years ago. Like you, I at first attributed it to internet-induced overblowing of the facts. Unfortunately, the trail of failed BMW drivetrains has continued for the last three years (and the last two Iron Butt Rallies) and has caused a lot of long-time BMW riders, myself included, to refrain from purchasing a new BMW motorcycle. I've ridden the IBR twice on my R11RSL and would like to ride it again. If I do, it most likely will NOT be on a BMW. Not unless I see definite signs of action on the part of BMW AG to solve the QUALITY CONTROL issue that is at the heart of this problem.

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