Ford & Co - Bailout or replace - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
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post #1 of 48 (permalink) Old Dec 6th, 2008, 2:30 am Thread Starter
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Ford & Co - Bailout or replace

It is notorious Ford cars are mostly junk. Most of the brothers as well. How do you fell about recent bailouts needed to keep them alive? With same total amount I bet a new industry can be built with a different approach on reality. Or you just hope they will learn a lesson and improve? In my oppinion, Ford and others are a piece of american history and shouldn't be left alone. Regarding the individuals responsible for wrong decisions during the time, well, that's another story. Skin them!


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post #2 of 48 (permalink) Old Dec 6th, 2008, 6:15 am
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A better question is what cars does Romania build?

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post #3 of 48 (permalink) Old Dec 6th, 2008, 7:26 am
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Doru,

You should really stick to things you know, and not stuff you read on the internet.

I'm on my 6th Ford since 1982. Before that my dad had a 1969 Galaxy 500 that we put 110K miles on, and a 1976 LTD that put over 100K on before getting a 1990 Crown Victoria, 2000 Lincoln Town Car (which he still has), and a 2007 Escape. In the mid-90s, he picked up a couple project Bronco IIs that had engine issues (owner abuse), but he rebuilt the engines in the garage himself and both still run to this day. My dad still drives one, and my sister has the other.

Here are my Fords.

1977 Ford Thunderbird (102K miles before it was totaled by a drunk driver)
1988 Mustang GT (10K miles before I traded for the convertible)
1989 Mustang GT Convertible (62K miles)
1994 Ford Bronco 65K miles
1999 Lincoln Navigator 92K miles
2007 Lincoln Navigator 36K miles

Other than regular maintenance, only the 77 T-Bird gave me one problem. The water-pump went bad at 60K miles, and it was a bitch to replace. I think I still have scars on my fingers from that event. But at least I could work on the car myself. I average about $200 per year on regular maintenance items. In comparison, my wife's Mercedes runs about $2000 per year in service repairs over the 8 years.

In the time between the T-Bird and the Mustang, I drove a 76 Chevy Nova that I picked it up for $400 at the police auction. It had been tricked out by drug dealer before it had been seized by the New Mexico State Police. She was a fun ride. Air suspension, nitrous system, chrome wheels, a chocolate brown metallic paint that was something you could only appreciate in person (pictures or describing it just couldn't do it justice).

I'll continue to buy Fords. If Ford brought the New Ka over from Europe today, I'd be right down to buy one. Given that their sales were down less than GM, Chrysler, and Toyota seems to be a testament to their appeal and quality. That they are looking only for bridge financing ($9B in loans) and not a bailout, they seem to be in a much stronger position. They've already made the first step to getting concessions of the UAW with $1 salary for the CEO and pay cuts and no bonuses for executives and white collar workers. Ford has been more aggressive in their consolidation efforts and re-tooling for smaller cars has them in a much better place to weather the downturn.

Since I do a lot of traveling for my job, I drive all sorts of cars as rentals. I wouldn't touch a GM car, but I like their SUVs and Trucks. You couldn't pay me to own a Toyota Avalon, but then again, you couldn't pay me to drive a Ford Taurus either. I just don't like the 4 door mid-size sedans at all. The Buick Lucerne is the only GM car that seemed to be solid in that mid-size sedan class. The Hyundai cars have been quite impressive, certainly giving Honda and Toyota a run for their money. Who would have thought a little company from South Korea would catchup and pass the Japanese in only 5 or 6 years?

If you're looking for the freeway behemoth, the Crown Victoria can't be beat. That's why the cops use it. I prefer the mid-size to full-size SUVs from all the manufacturers. The Honda Pilot is interesting, but ugly. I think they were trying to make a SUV feel like a car. The got it right on the inside, but really screwed up on the outside.

Chrysler. Ugh. Maybe we should just let that one die. Save the Charger and Challenger, but let the rest go.

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post #4 of 48 (permalink) Old Dec 6th, 2008, 8:28 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2008-K1200GT
A better question is what cars does Romania build?
renault locally branded as dacia, soon ford, eu versions. after 1bn investment until 2012. used to also build daewoo before they went bankrupt. their factory was now purchased by ford. used to also do some army jeeps now factory closed.

http://www.dacia.ro/


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post #5 of 48 (permalink) Old Dec 6th, 2008, 8:40 am Thread Starter
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@eljeffe
i am pretty familiar with most of models you mentioned from car rentals i get in the us, taxis, limo services. all sucks. i use to drive fine cars, mostly bmw's, some mercedes and audi in the past, you cannot compare. this is not the issue though. if i should live in the us i would probably drive an american car. even here, i was thinking to buy a wrangler for this winter, had a cherokee before and was fun. the point is that most of the people i know in the us are saying same thing, ford is junk, nobody buys. had few ford rentals, found the steering dangerously unprecise, soft suspension, now i avoid them. this is what i know and is not from the internet.
i also like the charger, challanger and all other old american muscle cars.


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post #6 of 48 (permalink) Old Dec 6th, 2008, 9:26 am
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Ford, GM and Chrysler are in their current position because they build an inferior product and grossly overpay an inferior workforce. The unions are mostly to blame for this as the demands of the workers constantly increase without regard for the well-being of the company. And that's the same for any union whether the auto industry or something else.

Jeff I can appreciate that you feel Ford builds a fine car after having 6 of them, but my personal experience and that of family and friends tells me that an import (particularly Japanese) will far outlast an American car and have fewer problems. Only one of yours had over 100k miles on it which is the magic number for most domestics. I expect a Japanese car to go 200k without major problems (and I've had 2 that did). And the build quality of the American cars is a joke compared to an import. If Ford could build a car that would last, have great craftmanship and give me peace of mind I would buy one. Until then I'll continue to be happy in my Lexus.


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post #7 of 48 (permalink) Old Dec 6th, 2008, 9:29 am
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The issue is that people dont want them....if you cant sell them you are not going to make it in the industry.....and if you cant build what people want why should you be in the market...real simple.... when you open up to the goverment and unions to run you bissness then you are surely going to fail....not a mystery...rather simple..Bye Bye big 3....next time hire non union and put your $$$ to bying from quailty vendors... listen to the CONSUMER!! and build what people will buy....mmmm remember all those jobs that people didnt want?.....Now its time to get back on the subject of illegals working in this country..Think those jobs look prety good now?.....But we know that that subject wont come up again till the next cycle....Now on to the housing BS...Life is a bitch sometimes....Deal with it....A little tough love can go a long way...been there and done that....it sucks but you work hard and get threw it...and learn a lesson in life..
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post #8 of 48 (permalink) Old Dec 6th, 2008, 10:31 am
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Well, I love my Ford pick up truck and have NEVER had any problems with them. In Texas, there are more very high mileage Ford pick ups on the road than any other vehicle.

You reckon there's a reason?

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post #9 of 48 (permalink) Old Dec 6th, 2008, 10:43 am
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Seems to me that none of the cars built in Romania are Romanian. If I'm not mistaken Ford invented mass production of the Automobile, everyone else copied Ford. Sorry, but I'm tired of people from other Countries criticizing the United States, especially since you only have the freedom to use the internet, because of the United States. Remember that next time the urge to criticize something American comes over you. Without us Romania, and the rest of Eastern Europe would be speaking German, or Russian. The way things are looking, with mother Russia rearing her ugly head again, you may need us soon, keep that in mind.

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post #10 of 48 (permalink) Old Dec 6th, 2008, 11:04 am
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Well, we've had our '94 F150 since about '96. It had 30K on it. Now has 196K. Last year was the first year we really had to sink any money into it, and that was about $2500. Would I buy a Ford again? Damn straight, Skippy! Would I buy a Chevy or GMC? Not on your life. Dodge maybe.

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