k12/13s vs japanese - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old Jan 15th, 2014, 1:23 am Thread Starter
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Question k12/13s vs japanese

I have always had BMW bikes, and after my first '85 k100rs, i have been in love with the k bikes. I sold my 03 k1200rs in 2010 and am looking to buy another bike. That being said, I have been interested in 07/08 k1200s or k1300s.

I have a good friend that spends countless hours reading forums and has advised me against making any k-bike purchases and purchasing a Japanese bike instead.

I have read many threads about the problems with the newer k-bikes (timing chain guard, final drive problems, throttle response...etc.)

I never had a single problem with my previous bikes which is why i have always been such a fan. Has BMW gone away from "swiss watch" reliability to pursue performance or are these problems something that is minor in the grand scheme of the total picture?
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old Jan 15th, 2014, 10:11 am
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there have been problems, but imo they have been worked out for the most part by the time the k13 was rolled out. yes, you hear about the occasional final drive failure, transmission problem, fuel connector problems but I would imagine that the numbers would be comparable to a japanese brand (post k13 introduction).

as far as the swiss watch reliability, i think all manufacturers that push the production limits of engine, chassis performace with ultra high compression ratios, lightweight aluminum/magnesium materials, etc. will experience failure once in a while. It's inevitable.

Sure they could create a tank, but then it would weigh, well, like a tank.

I'm tearing into a 1977 yamaha triple and everything in that engine weighs twice what it does in the k1300 engine it seems. Except the clutch. It;s much smaller likely due to about 1/2 the power.

Would I buy another BMW? Probably not. At least not new. They command too much of a premium. Used maybe. Do I love my K12R? YES! I don't think I'll ever trade or sell the bike. Even at 8 years old, the chassis and engine performance is as modern as I need.

'06 K1200R- in pieces
'73 Honda CB500F- slow but fun.
'77 Yamaha XS 750 triple- kinda
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2014, 8:29 am
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my .02

I got hooked on BMW 10 years ago b'cause of the exclusive options like cruise, heated grips and seats, electric windscreen, ABS and the like.

Now those items are becoming widely available through many different manufacturers.

My BMWs were all nice enough, but quirky, or even down right troublesome. Like the problems you mention in parentheses, no final drive problems for me so far however, knock wood.

The BMW name certainly carries gravitas, lots of admiring stares and questions, if that makes a difference. The exclu$ivity comes at a price however.

Frankly, all the Japanese bikes I've owned have shifted better than the beemers.
Don't even have to think about it, just as it shoud be..

Currently I own a 2003 BMW K1200GT, a 2008 BMW K1200GT and a 2012 Suzuki V-Strom 650.
The '03 GT shifts pretty well, the '08 GT really performs quite poorly in terms of clutch and transmission, the V-Strom is perfect.

Test ride thoroughly if you can and decide what you like best.
.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2014, 10:38 am
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My wife and I have an 07 K1200GT with 62,000 km of wonderful riding together. Would prefer an S for myself but the GT is much more comfortable 2 up long distance. We had it since new. Had several RS before this one.

Some issues but all have been addressed. I wonder how much abuse others are giving their bikes that they have so many problems. GT is not as nimble as a sport bike like the Ninja but far more comfortable to ride. Much prefer the confidence of the BMW ride, Nijna used to scare me!

Major concern was the clutch squeals and slips that was corrected with the updated K1300 clutch package replacement last yr.

I have had no final drive issues, brakes are original and all else was just wear and tear or warranty.

Had considered trading to the K1300 when it came out but was not worth the extra on the trade value. Anticipate many more good years from my 1200 now that all has been addressed.

Simply put, we love the thing. (Goes like crazy when wife is not on the back whacking my helmet.) Once when we were out on a twisty she told me I scared her. Next leg I slowed some and she literally fell asleep. Often does that on our 10 hr rides. What other bike can scare you and put you to sleep on the same ride?

Enjoy your choice.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old Jan 16th, 2014, 10:21 pm Thread Starter
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Final drive issues

I've been looking heavily into an 07/08 k1200s, I appreciate the comments so far.

Has anyone looked into a sort of "preemptive" approach and putting a heavier duty bearing set in order to address the problem? Or is it a deeper engineering issue?

I spoke with the dealer today and he said it was simply a matter of replacing the bearing set before they go bad. Every 30-40k miles according to his estimate. Not exactly a maintenance free situation.

A $400 bearing swap ever 30k miles doesn't frighten me. It's the guys claiming they are on their third $2000 final drive and still having problems.

Does anyone have a take on this?
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old Feb 1st, 2014, 11:09 pm
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My friend Jasper bought a Hyabusa in 2006, I got a K1200s and he laughed at me for paying so much extra. They were a dead tie in acceleration and handling, who would win came down to luck and rider. In 2010 he bought a new Hyabusa (shocks gone and starting to jump out of first on hard acceleration) and I put on an Akropovic, remapped the fuel, Anti-Grav battery along with a full 25K service. The K1200s was now the clear winner in acceleration and even up on handling to his new Hyabusa. It's now 2014 and he is looking at yet again buying, I put on new shocks and 50K service.

Over time this has been a pretty inexpensive bike if you compare buying something else more often. The BMW just seems to age better than the Japanese.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 2014, 4:41 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOA
In 2010 he bought a new Hyabusa (shocks gone and starting to jump out of first on hard acceleration) and I put on an Akropovic, remapped the fuel, Anti-Grav battery along with a full 25K service. The K1200s was now the clear winner in acceleration and even up on handling to his new Hyabusa.
If you truly think a k1200s can out accelerate a gen 2 busa over any extended time or distance, you really are drinking the Kool-Aid.

20 more hp and 30 more lb/ft over the k1300s.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/co...he_record.html

'06 K1200R- in pieces
'73 Honda CB500F- slow but fun.
'77 Yamaha XS 750 triple- kinda
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old Feb 2nd, 2014, 4:56 pm
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I guess DOA isn't giving himself enough credit as a rider

Eric S.
2009 K1300GT - Red
1986 Harley Davidson FXRT - Sold
1982 Yamaha Seca 650 Turbo - Sold
1982 Yamaha XT 200 - Traded in
1980 Yamaha IT 125 - Traded in
1975 Honda XR 75 - Traded in
Honda Z50 - Traded in
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 2014, 3:59 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCW
If you truly think a k1200s can out accelerate a gen 2 busa over any extended time or distance, you really are drinking the Kool-Aid.

20 more hp and 30 more lb/ft over the k1300s.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/co...he_record.html
LOL, consider all the facts?

My riding buddy is 30 - 40 lbs heavier than I am.

Busa has higher center of gravity, shorter wheel base. In first gear both bikes are not HP limited, rather, which rider can keep the front wheel in front of the rear is the limit. We would roll on from 20 MPH to avoid equipment breakage and his extra HP on the first Busa was not an advantage until well over 100MPH. He would win eventually, but only with enough straight road. Twisties were pretty even.
Second Busa was pretty much the same bike, but the by then I was running a full Akropovic Ti exhaust and had remapped my fuel. A few mods and Anti-gravity battery netted a 30 lb loss in weight. Over 120MPH the Busa still held a small edge but we seldom had room for that kind of speed.
Third Busa was down on acceleration across the board. I had the motor just to my liking and the suspension dialed in.

Your mileage may vary, but that is my experience.
He is getting a ZX14 next year so I will be losing all the roll-ons and passing him in the twisties.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2014, 7:55 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishgal08
I have always had BMW bikes, and after my first '85 k100rs, i have been in love with the k bikes. I sold my 03 k1200rs in 2010 and am looking to buy another bike. That being said, I have been interested in 07/08 k1200s or k1300s.

I have a good friend that spends countless hours reading forums and has advised me against making any k-bike purchases and purchasing a Japanese bike instead.

I have read many threads about the problems with the newer k-bikes (timing chain guard, final drive problems, throttle response...etc.)

I never had a single problem with my previous bikes which is why i have always been such a fan. Has BMW gone away from "swiss watch" reliability to pursue performance or are these problems something that is minor in the grand scheme of the total picture?
I will jump in......07 Gt with the jump guard and tensioner added, 40000 km and one battery. Currently running Metzler Z8s still original brakes. So,,the way I see it I have a 7 year old German in the garage that has been basically flawless in its life.
I have also had a 7 year old Japanese bike...and as I can remember...it never really stirred the soul after 7 years like the K bike does.
The K is a rocket when you want it to be..relatively good in bad weather,,comfy for 2 up riding and capable of way more in the twistys that I am now or will ever be.
Heavy in town...and really does not like a city ride. Then again...neither do I so.....
Town rides? I would do a S rather than a Gt...and ya...one more thing...anyone that thinks that a 'busa is all that against a Ks...well my .02 says stay on it for a couple a spirited days. You will soon see who is riding the more overall better bike.
fire away!
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