Changing the oil and metal shavings - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old Apr 5th, 2006, 6:29 pm Thread Starter
 
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Changing the oil and metal shavings

I just changed my oil at 3300 miles. (First oil change was done at the dealer during the 600 mile service.)

The question is, the magnet on the drain plug had a bit of fine metal shavings stuck to it. Enough to cover the top and about 50% of the sides of the magnet. I assume this is normal especially after only 3000 miles but being the anal guy I am and not being an expert on engine wear and break in, I'm wondering if this is normal or if there is any reason for concern.

I don't have a pic but there is one over at the bmwK1200S site where I posted the same question: http://bmwk1200s.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20268#20268

Still, the question remains, what is normal? Should I expect some fine shavings each time I change the oil and as the miles pack on and more oil changes occur, should I expect the shavings to diminish or stop all together? Is there reason for concern?

Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old Apr 5th, 2006, 6:48 pm
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That is normal at that mileage....I doubt that the dealer cleaned that plug at the 600 mile service....you should see less on future changes....that has been my experience.

'04 GT...Orient Blue...Staintune...Ohlins...Power Commander
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old Apr 5th, 2006, 7:49 pm Thread Starter
 
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Here's another thing I didn't like about the oil change:

Since on the K1200S the oil filter is mounted sideways it's impossible to fill the new filter with fresh oil prior to installation. Also, since there is an external oil tank on this bike, once you drain the crankcase and install the new filter, the engine has no oil in it and there is no way to get new oil into the motor prior to start up.

Once I installed the new filter, reinstalled the drain plug, and added 3+ qts of oil to the oil tank, I started it up to get the oil moving and check for leaks.

The engine sounded normal for a second or two then sounded strange for a second. Kind of a high pitched whine. The noise was as if what ever film of oil was still in the motor after draining gave way to friction and the engine was basically running dry inside for a split second waiting for the new oil to be picked up from the oil tank and circulated through the engine.

The strange engine noise only lasted a second then everything sounded normal after that but I must say I didn't like that sound nor the fact that the engine has to run basically dry for a second until the oil gets in there.

Any tips or comments on this?
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old Apr 5th, 2006, 8:31 pm
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There is no need to fill the filter with oil. There is WAY more than enough residual oil in the bearings for the few seconds that the oil is filling the filter, considering that there is no load whatsoever on the motor. The point here is that the motor is NOT "running dry".

There is no way that the engine significantly differs from any car engine in this respect, and no one bothers to do this in a car (and with a car, the filter takes twice as long to fill compared to small filter on your bike).

I guess the other way to put it is that BMW is not so stupid that they would design an engine that suffers damage just by changing the filter!

Bob.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2006, 2:37 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark5lam
The engine sounded normal for a second or two then sounded strange for a second. Kind of a high pitched whine. The noise was as if what ever film of oil was still in the motor after draining gave way to friction and the engine was basically running dry inside for a split second waiting for the new oil to be picked up from the oil tank and circulated through the engine.

The strange engine noise only lasted a second then everything sounded normal after that but I must say I didn't like that sound nor the fact that the engine has to run basically dry for a second until the oil gets in there.

Any tips or comments on this?
I don't think you have anything to be concerned about in terms of the risk of damage from a very short period of low oil pressure. Put simply there doesn't appear to be any way around the issue after dropping the oil and filter and it can be reasonably assumed that the design engineers will have considered the issue.

Having said that it does make sense to have the engine and oil up to full operating temp prior to draining. I read an SAE article some time back that suggested complete lubrication of all parts was only achieved after about 20mins of running and the boundary lubrication conditions prior to 20mins or there about was a significant contributor to engine wear. It makes sense to me to drain the engine after a run to get the benefits of a complete lubricated state before a short period of low oil pressure plus the full pickup of all the oil contaminants (moisture, small suspended particles).

There are more than the obvious cost saving benefits to changing the oil yourself. Keeping an eye on mag drain plug deposits and even perhaps running a maintenance log book with an observation logged on the deposits and other behavior will give a profile of engine "life". In the first 1000 miles or so there will be all sorts of metal coming out of the engine depending on how tight the engine was built. Cam chains, transmission, valve gear, rings and cylinder walls are all going to lose a little metal. I would think though that by 5,000 - 10,000miles (8,000 - 16,000km) there should be no more than a slight smear of "dark dust" on the mag plug. Another way to supplement the mag plugs operation is to install a series of aftermarket high power permanent magnets around the steel shell of the oil filter. You won't be able to easily see what's coming out of the engine with the oil filter magnets in place but it is a useful option.

Oil quality is the life blood of small high performance engines - its also a valuable testing resource if more intensive examination of engine "health" is required.

Last edited by Lenz; Apr 6th, 2006 at 4:43 am.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2006, 10:34 am
 
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My drain plug was the same at 3k mile - just did an oil change at 9k after running synthetic at 6k, and my drain plug had virtually no shavings at all.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 2006, 6:49 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportrider
My drain plug was the same at 3k mile - just did an oil change at 9k after running synthetic at 6k, and my drain plug had virtually no shavings at all.
So your change interval is 3000 miles (5000km) and the oil type was maintained up to 6000 miles (10,000km). Was there a significant reduction in mag plug deposits at 6k miles from 3k miles. While you are definitely seeing the right things happening I'm just wondering how much of the reduction was due to the engine settling down or the change in oil specs. Bottom line --- it doesn't matter ----it's all good !
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2006, 11:46 am
 
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My dealer did the 6k, so not sure how the plug looked then. I'm having them do the "every other" oil change - 6k intervals just in case any warranty issues arise during the 1st 36k miles. I think the labor is $32, which ain't too bad, considering it takes me a good hour to do it myself.
I just sleep better at night changing it every 3k and running full synthetic.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 2006, 8:35 pm
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Its just a suggestion but you may be able to stretch the oil and filter changes a little further with no detrimental effect on the engine. To do this on a reasonably well informed basis the oil could be tested at the 10,000 - 12,000 mile change having maintained the 3,000miles interval on a regular basis during the engine settling period. The service interval could perhaps be extended to 4,000 - 5,000 miles and the oil retested and changed. To me a top quality oil with a quality filter should be good for 6,000miles (10,000km) but the unknowns in the equation are :

(1) Run in / engine settling temporary wear and deposits - reducing with run hours

(2) Continued clutch and transmission wear - particularly the wet, shared lubricant clutch.

Oil testing has provided the basis for significant down time reduction and $ savings for transport companies however by pass auxillary oil filters are also commonly used. I guess any decision on the need for oil testing would be based on how hard the engine is working, cost / time savings and mileage per year. If its all just " Mind over matter" ie " I don't mind cause it don't matter" then simple, "no doubt" oil and filter change intervals @ 3000 miles should definitely allow doubt free flying.

Last edited by Lenz; Apr 7th, 2006 at 8:46 pm.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old Apr 10th, 2006, 1:45 am
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He can run

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenz
Its just a suggestion but you may be able to stretch the oil and filter changes a little further with no detrimental effect on the engine. To do this on a reasonably well informed basis the oil could be tested at the 10,000 - 12,000 mile change having maintained the 3,000miles interval on a regular basis during the engine settling period. The service interval could perhaps be extended to 4,000 - 5,000 miles and the oil retested and changed. To me a top quality oil with a quality filter should be good for 6,000miles (10,000km) but the unknowns in the equation are :

(1) Run in / engine settling temporary wear and deposits - reducing with run hours

(2) Continued clutch and transmission wear - particularly the wet, shared lubricant clutch.

Oil testing has provided the basis for significant down time reduction and $ savings for transport companies however by pass auxillary oil filters are also commonly used. I guess any decision on the need for oil testing would be based on how hard the engine is working, cost / time savings and mileage per year. If its all just " Mind over matter" ie " I don't mind cause it don't matter" then simple, "no doubt" oil and filter change intervals @ 3000 miles should definitely allow doubt free flying.

He also can run BMW synth spec and change every 6K miles with no ill effects. But it seems we have an anal retentive BMW owner who feels the need to change synth every 3K so he sleeps better.
I can:

Give you valium to help you sleep
You give me the money every 3 K for said oil change and labour


And don't worry

I am just as anal as you although I wouldn't waste my money like that.
I would rather have a bottle of good scotch

Ah your all Fcukin nuts!!!!!
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