are there any technicians out there in K-Bike land? - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old May 21st, 2006, 4:46 pm Thread Starter
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are there any technicians out there in K-Bike land?

OK...Lets discuss working on the K12S/R at home.

First off this needs to be for those who are highly technically competent....and/or those who love/ want/need to work on their bike at home. I am not talking about just changing oil here. I would like to be able to do everything except check the computer....as I realize that is, at this time, a dealer only option. ( I would like to check the bikes compter as well.... all one would need is a lap top & cable interface)

My nearest (highly competent) is 200 miles away. I personally do not have time ( or money) to bring it to the dealer for every little thing.

So what is the scoop? What info is available? What can we do & not do ( in the spirit of what i am asking here)
Does anyone know if non-dealer folks will be able to check the can-a-bus ....errrr ummm can-bus? ( sorry could not help it)

PS I am highly skilled in the disciplines of electronics, mechanics, & computers . So this stuff will be a cake walk ....but ONLY with the technical info!!!


to get into more detail...let me state my question in this fashion....



**************

Let me try this.....

I think my question( s) would be...

...are there/is there info on repairing the mighty K?
....in the way there is Haynes Manuals for pre can-bus machines.


AND...if so ...what repairs are you guys doing....everything short of a valve adjustment & checking the on board computer?

For example,

**exibit A **I know that to service the cooling system you need a vaccum pump. Well, I gots one of dem! ..so i am sure that the procedure w/ proper instruction would be do-able at home? ! yes/no? I would want to put fresh coolant in the bike at least every 18 to 24 months. I certainly do not want to have to bring the bike to the dealer for that!

** exibit b** i would want to install fresh brake fluid once a yr. I read somewere that one could do that at home, but the dealer GT1 is needed to be sure there is no air. I can promise you this. I can bleed brakes and NOT, NADA, NO WAY introduce air into the sealed system. Ya just gotta take certain steps and be careful...and a few other little tricks.... one being my vaccum bleeder system....it is the bomb! So the question here is, can one bleed the brakes, or do you need the GT1 to activate certain servos in order for the fluid to flow?.....or do you need the dealer GT1 to check things etc?

** exibit c** does anyone know if there will be made available to independant shops, the electronic tools to allow for interface w/ the bikes on board computer?

** exibit d** of course any other things that I am not thinking of at the current moment?


By saying lets discuss.....maybe a few of you would be willing to tell us what kind of work you do on your k12S/R
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old May 21st, 2006, 6:07 pm
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speaking from experience, almost everything can be handled (except the canbus system) with the proper tools. we've done stage one & stage two heads, valve adjustments, cooling system flushes, brake bleeding (even upgraded calipers), etc.

the cooling system does need some adapters to go with a good vacuum pump (we designed a kit but haven't decided to release it yet). note that there are differences in bleeding the cooling system between the "s" & "r" models.

abs equiped brakes can be flushed/bled but again you need to understand the workings of the system before it can be done (and i wouldn't recommend using a vacuum pump).

hope this helps.

regards,

ken zeller
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www.evoluzione.net
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old May 21st, 2006, 6:23 pm
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Racegun , Did You Consider Buying The Service Manual?
You Have 3 Options Here

1- The Oem From Bmw
2- The One From Pirate's
3- The Econo One's From E-bay ( They Go For About $ 11.00 On There )

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old May 21st, 2006, 6:53 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evoluzione
speaking from experience, almost everything can be handled (except the canbus system) with the proper tools. we've done stage one & stage two heads, valve adjustments, cooling system flushes, brake bleeding (even upgraded calipers), etc.

the cooling system does need some adapters to go with a good vacuum pump (we designed a kit but haven't decided to release it yet). note that there are differences in bleeding the cooling system between the "s" & "r" models.

abs equiped brakes can be flushed/bled but again you need to understand the workings of the system before it can be done (and i wouldn't recommend using a vacuum pump).

hope this helps.

Ken,
1.Do the service manuals describe how these maintenance actions you mention are done?

2.Which one should I buy...( maybe more than 1...as is usually the case)

3. Can the adapters ( for cooling system flush) be fabricated from metric fittings commonly available at specialty hardware stores?

4. Do the books ( C D 's) describe the correct method of bleeding the brakes?

5. If I have a question, can I call you?
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2006, 8:27 am
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There is only *one* repair manual (by BMW) and it's the one that is for the dealers, too. Everything is (should be) described there. Lots of pictures and detailed explanation in steps. Easy to understand.

Manfred
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2006, 9:26 am Thread Starter
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MANFRED...serv manual

THX Manfred,
Were can i get the service manual you speak of?
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2006, 12:04 pm
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......( I would like to check the bikes compter as well.... all one would need is a lap top & cable interface.................

BMW don't want you poking around in your (or is it their?) ECU. First you have to find the Motronics protocols and I don't think freedom of information or EU directives on ECU diagnostics for bikes has reached the boxes and systems produced under license for BMW.


Now if everybody had the step by step how to do instruction set, dvd and alternative special service tool workrounds, what would your dealers be doing to make money? The cost of new bikes would certainly have to rise if they have to claw back lost cash from servicing. Of course they could have designed a bike to last 100K miles with nothing more than routine servicing, but then nobody would buy the new model claimed to be better and the service shops wouldn't need more than low level cheaper techs to do easy jobs. The real cost of owning your bike is not the new price you paid for it. It's that plus everything else projected forwards. If there were no forward expenses, you'd have to pay more for the new bike or BMW would have to lay off workers.

Dealers techs go on training courses. That's because the manual doesn't tell you everything and the techs must know more than you - knowledge is power. They have to do a job once and try to get it right first time (most of the time that is) Whereas you can get away with doing a job badly, paying more and put it down to something you hadn't got but they had.

There's a Clima manual coming out soon I think, which should be an interesting read.

Why ruin an industry with technical secrecy, high markups and high cost spare parts which keeps a lot of dealers and bike techs in jobs? Somebody has to pay for product promotion and glossy literature as well. You wouldn't want to see your new K1200 promoted in Walmart on the back of an envelope with a third off retail would you?

When you have years of experience working up the learning curve so you can strip a complete motor or bike, rebuild it and get 50K miles without a problem, you've arrived. Along the way it's easy to think bikes can be maintained with a flow chart, a few service algorithms and a toolkit but in reality it's very different.

I'm sure with a few books and some internet browsing I could repair my cat if it went wrong, but I like my cat and there are some jobs I only want done once and right the first time, with no chance to practice first!



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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2006, 3:39 pm
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It Happens That Is 4 Protocol's Since 1996 Running Under The Obd-ii System
1-iso
2-pwm
3-vpm
4-can
And We Are Running Under What Bmw Calls A Can-bus
I Wonder If The Universal Scanners Like Pro-scan (for An Exemple) Can Read From The Computer.
If So It's Gonna Be Pretty Easy To Read The Computer And Probably Write On It Also
But Then We Have Only 12 Chances Left If We Didn't Have Any Updates!

Maybe Guy's Like Ken Have Been There Or Is There Anybody From Rhinewest Around.
I Read Somewhere That They Are Working On Something To Help Performance.
I Also Read That Ken Will Have Some Type If F.i. Box

Still Waiting For Upgrades
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