05' & 06' K1200S Transmission Problems - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 2006, 11:48 am Thread Starter
 
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05' & 06' K1200S Transmission Problems

I would like to receive information from all K1200s owners with model years 05' & 06' that have currently or had previous transmission problems. I want to hear from the owners only and not hearsay please. I would like to know the problems, how many times the bike was placed in the shop, dealers contact information & responses, fixes implemented (if any), was the work covered under warranty, and if BMW replaced the entire transmission. Your responses should be detailed to the best of your knowledge. You can send a private PM if you wish.

Thank you in advance.

Steve
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 2006, 5:13 pm
 
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I have also had a problem as well as some other members. Follow link.

http://www.k-bikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5921
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 2006, 9:07 pm
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06 KS No trans problems. Clunky engagement of 1,2nd and a little 3rd. I Did have a engine noise-loose oil pump chain adjustment and clutch basket was replaced. 99 percent better. 9k miles. no driveability, handling or brake concerns. In once fixed once- Dealer, Hansens, was great.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 2006, 9:24 pm
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My '06 K1200S 2nd gear transmission failure described in this thread: http://www.k-bikes.com/forums/showth...0&page=1&pp=10 Entire transmission replaced under warranty at about 8,000 miles. Bike was in the shop twice for a total period of about 5 weeks until it was fixed. Like your situation, they weren't highly motivated to undertake drastic surgery until they could reproduce the problem on demand. The general initial response was "no ECU error codes = no problem".

I just kept driving it, the problem got gradually worse and more consistent until they could reproduce it. By that time the gearbox had gross damage, as described in the above thread. However it's likely the only solution was total replacement anyway, even if undertaken earlier.

My main concern is the dealer had no apparent guidance, technical bulletins from BMWNA, and no way to query an incident database for number of reported failures matching this description. Each dealer service manager is essentially an island to themselves with only tenuous verbal support from the factory. For each problem like this, each dealer service manager is starting from scratch, having no outside pooled knowledge except by informal phone contacts with other dealers and a tenuous, difficult-to-reach phone contact at BMWNA. There is no technical bulletin on the transmission problems, so no help there.

There should have an incident database all dealer service managers can access which is updated daily that shows developing problems and trends. The service manager should also have quick turnaround email access to the highest levels of BMW technical support.

This isn't an individual dealer problem, although some dealers are more responsive than others. It's a Motorrad corporate problem of inadequate support tools for the dealer network, and "too little too late" corrective steps.

Furthermore, once a major problem like this develops, BMW Motorrad needs to step up to the bar and totally resolve it.

An better example of how to handle it is the BMW car division's handling of the e46 M3 engine problem where many owners had spun bearings that required total engine replacement. BMW fixed the problems including all parts and labor, whether the original warranty was in effect or not, PLUS extended the e46 M3 warranty to 6 years and 100,000 miles, whether the car experienced the problem or not.

Why would they do that? Because once a certain critical mass of failures happens, you reach a "tipping point". Technically sophisticated dissatisfied ex-customers become active evangelists against the company and its products. This extends long after they no longer own the products.

To avoid this, when you totally screw up as a manufacturer, it requires commensurate corrective measures.

On a product/mfg level, it should also entail specific steps to ensure it doesn't happen again. On support level, it should include improved support and troubleshooting tools to ensure more rapid, accurate and consistent problem isolation by the dealer service network.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 2006, 11:37 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbenn75820
06 KS No trans problems. Clunky engagement of 1,2nd and a little 3rd...
Suppose the posting of this thread is to see how others handled their broken transmissions, with you having similar woes. I assume this is the case. FWIW, would just add to the quote above. Zero tranny issues with my '05 except for some 1st and 2nd gear clunkiness at lower RPMs. I have other late model BMW's and the clunkiness is not a KS "feature" alone. Web sites are a magnet for "issues" of all kinds, all kinds of makes. There is a vast majority not having any problems.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 2006, 12:44 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek1200s
I would like to receive information from all K1200s owners with model years 05' & 06' that have currently or had previous transmission problems. I want to hear from the owners only and not hearsay please. I would like to know the problems, how many times the bike was placed in the shop, dealers contact information & responses, fixes implemented (if any), was the work covered under warranty, and if BMW replaced the entire transmission. Your responses should be detailed to the best of your knowledge. You can send a private PM if you wish.

Thank you in advance.

Steve
Ok, just curious...why are you asking for this information? There are a number of posts here and elsewhere about K1200R transmission failures as well. "I would like to receive..." Ok, fine. What your goal with all of this?

Don't get me wrong, there may be a serious issue with the transmission. If so, what are your concerns at this point? Sharing is a two-way street...



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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 2006, 3:42 pm
 
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'05 K1200s

Gentlemen:

Here is the thread I started a couple of days ago:


I'm about 700 miles past my 6K service and I've noticed that when I shift (especially to descending gears) that it feels "notchy".....almost as if it was a two stage process. Until now, other than the clunk in the lower gears, the shifting has been precise. Given the recency of the oil change suggests that I'm encountering an unusual wear problem.

Have any of you experienced something similar?

I spoke to my dealer about this observation. Their response indicated that similar observations have been made but they have had no transmission problems. The dealer thought that most of these observations emanated from K1200 owners that have had experience with other brands like Yamaha, etc. whereby they experienced much smoother shifting transmissions. Not a very encouraging thought when you consider that the bike costs 50+% more than a R 1.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 2006, 8:18 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek1200s
I would like to receive information from all K1200s owners with model years 05' & 06' that have currently or had previous transmission problems. I want to hear from the owners only and not hearsay please. I would like to know the problems, how many times the bike was placed in the shop, dealers contact information & responses, fixes implemented (if any), was the work covered under warranty, and if BMW replaced the entire transmission. Your responses should be detailed to the best of your knowledge. You can send a private PM if you wish.

Thank you in advance.

Steve
2005 K1200S, 8000 miles - no problems whatsoever.
2006 K1200S (hers), 4800 miles - no problems whatsoever.
2006 K1200GT, 9300 miles - no problems whatsoever.

My wife babies her S and I am much harder on mine.


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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 2006, 8:18 am Thread Starter
 
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Thanks to all that have responded. Yes, I have been reviewing previous post on this site and three other sites. I've printed some of them out and placed in my file. The reason for this post is that I'm having issues, some of them are very similar to others with 2nd and 3rd gear, a problem with a false neutral between 5th & 6th (upshifting or downshifting), and now dropped out of 6th gear back into 5th gear on it's own. I've had this problem basically all year long. The bike has been in the shop several times, and it does not happen when the tech rides it. BMW NA will not authorize a inspection of the gear box & clutch assembly after several request. I have documented my trans problems in writing to the dealer (on each event), but it seems my hands and the Dealers hands are tied. If I have some information from other K1200S owners, this may help me in solving the trans problems. Also, BMW NA has previously stated to the Dealer that they are not aware of any trans problems, and the problem is the rider. Well, that's not good customer service now is it? I patiently have worked with the Dealer all year long, provided written documentation in detail on at least three events, and I just want the bike to be inspected and repaired. This is not a heavily populated problem. But to those of us that are experiencing these trans/clutch related problems, we would like to have them resolved in a business like manner. I'm happy for those that are not having these issues, but please don't be critical to those small number of us that are. We just want our bikes to perform, mechanically free of defects, like yours. Another reason for the information that I have requested, is that maybe the dealers (dealer tech's) can communicate with each other in resolving the problem. Nothing counts more than first hand experience, so if these techs can talk to other tech's that have been inside the transmissions & made repairs, I may get this resolved in a reasonable timeframe.

Thanks.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 2006, 9:07 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek1200s
...problem with a false neutral between 5th & 6th (upshifting or downshifting), and now dropped out of 6th gear back into 5th gear on it's own. I've had this problem basically all year long. The bike has been in the shop several times, and it does not happen when the tech rides it. BMW NA will not authorize a inspection of the gear box & clutch assembly after several request...maybe the dealers (dealer tech's) can communicate with each other in resolving the problem. Nothing counts more than first hand experience, so if these techs can talk to other tech's that have been inside the transmissions & made repairs, I may get this resolved in a reasonable timeframe...
Your problem has all the hallmarks of a difficult issue: (1) relatively infrequent (2) intermittent problem, (3) can't be reproduced on demand (4) Likely of mechanical nature, so not sensed or recorded by ECU sensors (5) expensive to investigate further (requires tranny teardown).

It's possible your problem is related to the spate of transmission problems several owners have experienced. Is it a precursor to an imminent more complete failure? You're obviously worried about that, and with some justification.

However -- unless BMW sends a tech bulletin saying (in essence) "we have some KS/KR transmission problems, customers reporting xyz symptoms should have their transmissions inspected or replaced", OR unless the symptoms become more reproducible, you're stuck.

Re BMW techs talking to other techs, they have no formal, approved method for that, which IMO is a problem. There's no intra-company discussion forum or bulletin board for dealer service techs (or managers) to share expertise. As stated previously there's also no method for service managers to query a database of problem report incidents to see how many times a certain symptom has been reported.

To a significant degree, each time a symptom is reported to a Motorrad service dept, it's the first time they've heard it. No matter how many times and how many customers have encountered it, unless there's a tech bulletin, it's as if your problem is the first one (from the dealer service dept standpoint). BMW does not provide them the information tools needed for anything else.

BMW probably reads the posts here, maybe some techs do on their own time. In that sense your reporting the problem might in some way help.

If it's any consolation, transmission problems often get progressively worse. In time it may get sufficiently reproducible for your dealer to take further action. I know in that iterim period it's uncomfortable and frustrating.
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