Track riding- trail braking and front slip - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 19th, 2007, 6:45 pm Thread Starter
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Track riding- trail braking and front slip

I was reading a thread on Keith Code's forum about trail braking and the topic of front wheel slip came up.

How many of you are confident enough to corner hard enough to slide the front wheels?

I know watching Rossi riding SO LATE into a turn that he must KILL those front brakes and tires.

How 'bout our track dudes? Joker, 22, Eddie? Dave? Pirate? Even you Bent? Anyone else slip the fronts?

In a car, I can slide the front, back, drift, lift throttle oversteer, power on oversteer with the right car.

On my bike, nope. I can slide the rear on entry sometimes, a little power on exit scared me shitless. But, never the front. Too chicken shit to push hard enough that the front will slide a little. Probably why I still have chicken strips up front and none in the rear.

So I was wondering if this is a common thing on the track???
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 19th, 2007, 10:20 pm
 
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Nope. Nuh-uh. Not me.

I've done it a few times, but not on purpose. Each time it was a real rectum-clencher!

Dave
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 19th, 2007, 10:49 pm
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sure no problem

Sure I slide the front, rear, both, drift, get some air on my KTM in the dirt. I began to learn how to regulate oversteer with the throttle in my Porsche. but on the street bike I like traction.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 20th, 2007, 12:14 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbenn75820
Sure I slide the front, rear, both, drift, get some air on my KTM in the dirt. I began to learn how to regulate oversteer with the throttle in my Porsche. but on the street bike I like traction.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 20th, 2007, 11:35 am
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Originally Posted by DaveNZ
Nope. Nuh-uh. Not me.

I've done it a few times, but not on purpose. Each time it was a real rectum-clencher!

Dave
Double ditto's on that.

Frank

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 22nd, 2007, 4:59 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCW
I was reading a thread on Keith Code's forum about trail braking and the topic of front wheel slip came up.

How many of you are confident enough to corner hard enough to slide the front wheels?

So I was wondering if this is a common thing on the track???
Not really, as far as I'm (and most non-professional racers/track riding fellows) are concerned. I recall reading about front wheel slip on the first "A twist of the wrist", and being in awe of the guy. Then I put things into perspective: the theory was great, but it did relate to 25-years old bikes and tires. My position is "you don't want to do that on a modern bike on modern, track-oriented tires".

You can get away with that - and maybe be proficient in the technique, as in going faster than cornering with the two wheels gripping - with harder, less gripping street tires. They tend to handle heat much worse, so on a racetrack, when you start to raise the pace, they start to slide a little on both ends. But given the task they're built to perform, street tires have a larger "grey area" where you can slide them with some confidence. All on a track tarmac, obviously.

Doing that on race tires is, IMHO, a little dangerous since there's a concrete risk of them re-gripping and highsiding you - street tires lose grip when they overheat, so you can slide them even when NOT on the edge of the tire, race/track tires do slide when you lean way too much or overheat a little: in both cases there's a definite chance of the bike decreasing its lean angle or the tires shedding some heat and getting back the grip they search for. Some racers do find the latest race tyres predictable enough to ride them at race pace when they're over and slide them with confidence, but it's not a technique I recommend practicing unless you're ready to sacrifice a couple of bikes (and maybe bones) in the learning process. If you race, that may be necessary, if you don't I don't think so. Last time I recall being in that situation, on the exit of Tosa in Imola, the following outlook from my visor was tarmac-sky-ground-sky-Ducati996logo-sky-ground-sky-grass-sky-paramedic asking me if I was alright. An interesting experience, but I don't recommend it to anyone.

And I wouldn't take the MotoGP physics as something that may have anything to do with the bikes we can ride, on the road or track. The differences in what Rossi's or Stoner's equipment allows - and thus their racing technique is - may be worth a post in itself. I'm not lucky enough to have been able to test a MotoGP, but I got the chance to ride some laps on Ruben Xaus's WSB Ducati F05, and I have spoken with lots of fast guys
earning a living racing on world level, and the things they do on any given lap are enough to put a guy with normal skills - and normal bikes - in rehab for some months...

CYA, Ed

Edoardo Licciardello

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to ride divine
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 23rd, 2007, 8:30 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCW
I was reading a thread on Keith Code's forum about trail braking and the topic of front wheel slip came up.

How many of you are confident enough to corner hard enough to slide the front wheels?

I know watching Rossi riding SO LATE into a turn that he must KILL those front brakes and tires.

How 'bout our track dudes? Joker, 22, Eddie? Dave? Pirate? Even you Bent? Anyone else slip the fronts?

In a car, I can slide the front, back, drift, lift throttle oversteer, power on oversteer with the right car.

On my bike, nope. I can slide the rear on entry sometimes, a little power on exit scared me shitless. But, never the front. Too chicken shit to push hard enough that the front will slide a little. Probably why I still have chicken strips up front and none in the rear.

So I was wondering if this is a common thing on the track???
"Even you Bent"

No, I don't slide the front tire, track or street. It's called "asking for it". I've slid enough on the rear that I just don't worry too much about it with the street tires I run. To slide a front tire on a public road or track is insanity in action, IMHO. A sliding front tire means no more control for 99.9% of riders. A sliding rear means just stay on the gas and keep on keeping on.

The MotoGp riders are riding MotoGP races because they're light years ahead of the rest of "us". Ya think they can do things us humans can't??
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 2008, 2:29 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCW
I was reading a thread on Keith Code's forum about trail braking and the topic of front wheel slip came up.

How many of you are confident enough to corner hard enough to slide the front wheels?

I know watching Rossi riding SO LATE into a turn that he must KILL those front brakes and tires.

How 'bout our track dudes? Joker, 22, Eddie? Dave? Pirate? Even you Bent? Anyone else slip the fronts?

In a car, I can slide the front, back, drift, lift throttle oversteer, power on oversteer with the right car.

On my bike, nope. I can slide the rear on entry sometimes, a little power on exit scared me shitless. But, never the front. Too chicken shit to push hard enough that the front will slide a little. Probably why I still have chicken strips up front and none in the rear.

So I was wondering if this is a common thing on the track???
Funny I found this thread after it being here for a year. That was the way I was taught 30 something years ago. Gum-ball RR slicks and trail breaking....yup. Now, (yesterday, in the freezing 25 deg. morning I did it on my M3's quite by accident.....almost saved me having to get my prostate surgery ) I never even think about doing it now. Nowhere around here to get that aggressive number one. And, I'm way to old to react properly anymore, number two.

Pain heals, chicks dig scars, glory.....lasts forever. Shane Falco,"The Replacements" 00'
7.1 and done...06' K1200R-EZ Tuning Exhaust, EVO billet clutch slave, Evo dual race filter kit, Braking 'Wave' rotors and pads, Triton2 tail, Vario levers, Evo peg lowering kit, SW Motech crash bars, R&G sliders full set, Nippy Norman's rear fiberglass hugger, CRG bar end mirrors, ACS shield, RhinoMoto bar end sliders and CRG mounts, Evoluzione o2 modifier, Pazzo "shorty" levers, Cortech Sport Tail Bag and Saddlebags.....
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 2008, 12:50 am
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nope never. i have lost traction momentarily, is what i call it, because it was unintended. twice on the front then had to relieve the cramp in my arsehole. minimal sliding in the rear on entry and exit but on accident. i lack the skills and don't intend on gaining knowledge in this department.

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 2008, 3:26 am
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Anyone attempting to deliberately execute a loss of traction of the front tyre in a high speed corner would have to let go of one of their penis's first.

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