Riding on ice + crash = $175 fine? - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old Dec 11th, 2011, 12:13 pm Thread Starter
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Riding on ice + crash = $175 fine?

From the December 2011 "Friction Zone" magazine (page 4, and there is a free PDF on their website here ) from a Washington State trooper on a guy who rode his H-D across a bridge with ice on top and he crashed, and he got a fine for $175.

Analysis:
The investigation showed that the motorcycle was traveling too fast for roadway conditions, which was the ice. The rider was cited for RCW 46.61.400 "Speed Too Fast for the Roadway Conditions," which is a $175 fine because of the collision.


So if there is ice anywhere and you fall over, the same law could apply: "Too fast for roadway conditions?" Cripes, anything over 1 MPH on a motorcycle could apply with ice anywhere - even walking.

I think I'll go outside and trip and fall on my icy sidewalk and sue myself for "Walking at a speed too fast for the sidewalk conditions" on the ice. Maybe get myself a fine from the county too.

Mack
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old Dec 12th, 2011, 5:23 am
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I think the problem with Laws these days is few of us are prepared to put money on challenging them. That's why being part of motorcycle community clubs is a good defense. Those small annual subscriptions can give bigger pay back.

Different countries have different interpretations. But in UK there would always have to be proof and evidence linked to the citation. What was the actual speed and to what extent was the element of 'chance' involved, considering a motorcyle only has 2 wheels and is more likely to spill on ice. If the bridge was maintained by a local agency, to what extent where they negligent if they didn't post warnings and signs and to what extent was the weather 'uncertain' to the extent the rider could not see or predict the amount of ice under his wheels. An 'analysis' is not fact or evidence, so what were the facts and evidence that preceded the analysis?

The risk of letting these type of incidents go through, is insurance companies can come along and say hey- it's your fault you were driving 'too fast' therefore we won't pay. The rider survived with damage to his bike which is sad and the $175 fine isn't that bigger deal. But the precedent set has much wider ramifications.

If it was me, I would have considered an appeal and I'm sure given some publicity, there would have been fellow (HD!) riders willing to chip in and offer financial support.



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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old Dec 12th, 2011, 8:41 am
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I don't know what to think. I guess my first thought is "would a cager get the same ticket for the same reason?"

somehow, I don't think so

on the other hand, I did not get a ticket when I did my 2-up solo crash on my LT in NM.

not sure why, they asked how fast I was going, I said the speed limit at least (65), more likely it was a bit over 70. I told them a slick spot just over the hill crest on route 60 got me (a giant tar snake that was damp from rain).

I think the LEO was a bit shocked how far my bike slid and the glittering 2-300 meters of bike parts along the road and into the mountain bush. I passed by there again a year later and I'm still looking for my glasses out there in the bush

I didn't know it til recently when i read my insurance papers, but a no-ticket accident saves you from an additional 10% surcharge after you crash. highway robbery is what these surcharges are in my opinion, in most cases. I mean really, shitz happens, cheez...

I've been 'caught' in 4" of snow crossing the continental divide (the last day of May no less!), sleet, hail, you name it I've seen it. I never let weather bother me much before the accident. I'm a bit more cautious now with a damaged body, can't hit the ground again and expect to live according to the docs

But I digress, not sure if I'd challenge the ticket or not. Seems to me like there is a 'ticket' for any offense on the planet someone would like to charge you with so who knows...

also makes me wonder if I'd get a ticket for dropping my bike at a stop sign (boots on the ground were a bit of a challenge, that FZ1 was tall!)...which I did, in slow motion. The cager's look behind me was priceless, LOL...
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old Dec 12th, 2011, 1:29 pm
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Same law applies here in NH when someone gets into a collision in snowy/icy conditions whether on a bike or not. The law states that you are always to have control of your vehicle if you elect to drive in any type of weather. So if you make the decision to drive on ice on a motorcycle, then you have to do so in a safe manner or leave the bike at home.

Not a very popular law I know but it keeps the 'no fault' incidents to a minimum.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2011, 1:52 pm
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I guess it makes sense but still, they outta just go ahead and add a "crash" surcharge for every crash.

Cause the way I figure, if and when I crash (and i did), its pretty much the drivers fault, considering yer driving! I could have slowed down, I coulda woulda and I'd never crash, et el...I'm the driver, can't blame anyone else. Well, most of the time

Fact is, I could have avoided my accident. Primarily by not being mentally distracted by Pie Town and the virtual, very real thoughts of an overflowing blueberry pie just waiting for me less than a mile away, after trying twice before and finding them closed! and I wasn't even considering ice cream on it before I managed to slide down that hill just over the crest where my bike went sideways for awhile before it beetchslapped me into the pavement at 70 MPH. I thought I was bleeding after the crash but it was just drool, still thinking about the pie i guess

Did I admit that to the LEO? not a chance!

I low sided my brand new 2002 FZ1 thru an intersection (very slow speed) 4 miles from the dealer when taking it home many years ago, with about 5 miles on the odo, doh!

It was real nice early in the day, these bozo's took so long to get me the bike it was starting to snow by the time i got on the road. home was close, but still, icy spot+new tires going thru the light and down I went. No LEOs, I got up quick and got rolling again

so it looks like I'm at least 2 tickets ahead of the game
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 2011, 4:17 pm
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Had a 110 MPH in a 75 zone plead down to "Too Fast for Conditions" ... three points and $86 fine (plus $450 for lawyer).

Was a perfect summer day, no clouds, no weather ... guess I could have argued that the conditions were perfect and therfore easily supported 110 MPH.

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 2011, 10:01 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhhall
Had a 110 MPH in a 75 zone plead down to "Too Fast for Conditions" ... three points and $86 fine (plus $450 for lawyer).

Was a perfect summer day, no clouds, no weather ... guess I could have argued that the conditions were perfect and therfore easily supported 110 MPH.
You could've argued that you were riding well within the limits of the environment, the motorcycle and the rider. Further, laws (for good reason) are fluid not fixed in any given circumstance hence you were within the stretched limits of the law. Dismissed!
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 2011, 7:22 am
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You have my vote to be my next judge, jury and non-executioner!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick2000
You could've argued that you were riding well within the limits of the environment, the motorcycle and the rider. Further, laws (for good reason) are fluid not fixed in any given circumstance hence you were within the stretched limits of the law. Dismissed!
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