'02 KRS brake pump woes - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
 
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post #1 of 5 (permalink) Old Oct 6th, 2007, 10:39 pm Thread Starter
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'02 KRS brake pump woes

It's going on 1 month now since I went to the dealer and the ModiTec confirmed (for the second time) that my brake pump was shot. I've asked / checked all the usual culprits:
wheel sensors, reservoirs topped up, and of course, how's your battery doing these days ?

I get the usual red flashing lights on the dash at the most inopportune times; coming off the expressway, lousy wet weather, etc. So it's not very confidence inspiring.
I haven't bothered to translate what the flashing red lights are really telling me. All I know is that I have residual braking ONLY, when the lights flash.

So here it is a month later. I've located a used pump. It's on the way here.

And over 1,500 miles later, the ONLY time the lights have flashed was on the 2 mile ride home from the dealer !!! 30 days ago.

Is it the battery ? Is the pump not getting enough volts ? Mechanic says that "this version of ABS is not as susceptible to voltage issues as some others ".

I haven't load tested it yet.

But I HAVE stopped charging it. I seem to be on the bike almost every other day.
Now that I've stopped charging it, the brake problem seems almost resolved.

Any thoughts on this one. I was going to keep a log of each and every time the pump failed, but once in a month is pretty easy to remember. Sheesh.

And finally, any suggestions for replacement front pads ? The Spiegler products look interesting, and not as expensive as OEM's.
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post #2 of 5 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 2007, 12:32 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dohalloran
It's going on 1 month now since I went to the dealer and the ModiTec confirmed (for the second time) that my brake pump was shot. I've asked / checked all the usual culprits:
wheel sensors, reservoirs topped up, and of course, how's your battery doing these days ?

I get the usual red flashing lights on the dash at the most inopportune times; coming off the expressway, lousy wet weather, etc. So it's not very confidence inspiring.
I haven't bothered to translate what the flashing red lights are really telling me. All I know is that I have residual braking ONLY, when the lights flash.

So here it is a month later. I've located a used pump. It's on the way here.

And over 1,500 miles later, the ONLY time the lights have flashed was on the 2 mile ride home from the dealer !!! 30 days ago.

Is it the battery ? Is the pump not getting enough volts ? Mechanic says that "this version of ABS is not as susceptible to voltage issues as some others ".

I haven't load tested it yet.

But I HAVE stopped charging it. I seem to be on the bike almost every other day.
Now that I've stopped charging it, the brake problem seems almost resolved.

Any thoughts on this one. I was going to keep a log of each and every time the pump failed, but once in a month is pretty easy to remember. Sheesh.

And finally, any suggestions for replacement front pads ? The Spiegler products look interesting, and not as expensive as OEM's.
I'll reply with what I understand about ABS II, haven't got involved with the servo brakes though:

You're jumping to a conclusion that the flashing warning (which disables the ABS) is directly a problem with the ABS pump. Once the bike has started (worst time for the battery voltage) if no ABS warning is given then I'd suspect any subsequent warning is caused by differences in wheel rotation (can happen in the wet), suspect sensor gaps or the sensor wiring. You must make sure there is no bearing wear on the rear and check the sensor gap at 3 places of rotation.

If you've had the rear brake caliper off - always check the sensor gap when you put the caliper back. I'm pretty certain that after initial startup and ABS checks, a real pump failure error would only get latched if the pump was used. I can't remember the last time I had my ABS come on in emergency, but I do hit the rear just to feel what it's like and work that piston occasionally. Not sure how to do it safely on the front.

If you've had the battery at least 3 years, it's probably time to change it, especially if winter's coming on.

I use the EBC Kevlars, but only because I regard rotor wear as important and dust is just a tolerable nuisance.



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post #3 of 5 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 2007, 1:25 pm Thread Starter
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THanks for the reply. I thought if there's anyone on this board that knows the K12RS pretty well, you would be one of them.

I'm not totally clear on your comments though.

First off, the ModiTec says the pump is shot. But of course, that's the last thing you want
to believe. I WOULD like to believe that I'm simply due for a new battery. And that of course, costs way less than a pump. Start with the least expensive items first, right ?

THe rear wheel sensor I have not had the pleasure of checking thoroughly. I will definitely take your advice on checking that, as well as the wires and gap in 3 places.
That seems to make sense.

But you're saying that there may not be a correlation between pump failure and the lights flashing... I will re-read what ya wrote, and go from there. Thanks again.
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post #4 of 5 (permalink) Old Oct 9th, 2007, 7:46 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dohalloran
THanks for the reply. I thought if there's anyone on this board that knows the K12RS pretty well, you would be one of them.

I'm not totally clear on your comments though.

First off, the ModiTec says the pump is shot. But of course, that's the last thing you want
to believe. I WOULD like to believe that I'm simply due for a new battery. And that of course, costs way less than a pump. Start with the least expensive items first, right ?

THe rear wheel sensor I have not had the pleasure of checking thoroughly. I will definitely take your advice on checking that, as well as the wires and gap in 3 places.
That seems to make sense.

But you're saying that there may not be a correlation between pump failure and the lights flashing... I will re-read what ya wrote, and go from there. Thanks again.
This is how I THINK it works: The ABS pump is a very compact high current draw device. When you turn the key and the ABS does its self checks it definitely doesn't operate the pump. If it did, we probably wouldn't be getting so many cases of stuck pistons on older bikes.

However, it's possible for the ABS computer to apply 12 volts for a few tens or hundreds of milliseconds to the pump and detect if the pump is stalled by a stuck piston (high current). It would also check if there was no current draw. This test wouldn't blow any fuses and they could set narrow limits for the current draw test result. The pass or fail result gets saved in memory and the Moditec can read it out. The test could be so sensitive that any slight sticking of the piston driven by the pump gives an out of tolerance current. Unfortunately, whilst the ABS system may have still worked, even freed up a stuck piston or seal, the self check diagnostics is locking it out.

I wouldn't just take a readout of 'Failed ABS Pump' and believe it. Yes, it says there's a problem, but 'Failure' means it didn't pass a certain test and criteria. Since the ABS pump is a brake component effectively sealed, they don't want dealers messing around inside them and aren't prepared to list any serviceable parts. If I had one 'Faulty' I'd definitely want to get inside it, even though I might be unable to replace a faulty part.

I've been thinking that I might be able to come up with some electronics that allows me to excercise the ABS pump into thinking it's handling a real situation for both wheels on the center stand with wheels stopped. I can make the ABS think the wheels are moving and electronically introduce a 1 tooth speed difference at the sensor inputs. That would be cool because I don't like the idea of riding to get ABS working on the front. I didn't mention that on my ABSII there's a relay mounted inside the cover of the unit. If I was removing it, I'd do some basic checks with a meter - relay coil OK, pump has low resistance, etc.

The most common problem on ABS has been sensors and wiring, next comes the pump/sticking piston. After checking all the sensor gaps and connectors, disconnecting the battery negative lead for half an hour should flush any stored error codes. Then you start from afresh.

So much to do and not enough time to do it!



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post #5 of 5 (permalink) Old Oct 9th, 2007, 9:39 pm Thread Starter
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Some deep thinking there

Voxmagna,

THanks for that input. I know you are someone who doesn't give up on K bike problems !! You want to find the solution.

I agree with what you've said in your 2nd posting. It a shame no one ever DOES get inside one of these pumps to find out what really goes wrong.

And yes, the Moby Dick is telling you something, but it's not as simple as saying, "The pump has failed."

Rode home again tonight, again, with nary a hint of problems. It's like it never happened before.

My mechanic is very good, I think; but he hates me to come and tell him about all this stuff I read about on the Internet.

However, many comments and observations (such as yours) may very well hold true.

Thanks again. I'll keep you posted.
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