Clutch issues -too hard basket?? - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 5th, 2009, 4:53 am Thread Starter
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Clutch issues -too hard basket??

In an ongoing clutch saga, I am still having problems with my K1200RS 2002 model 69000 km.

Clutch is slipping; that is, it takes a while for the clutch to engage fully then every thing is fine until I actuate clutch again to change gear and things repeat.

What Ive done so far.

Pulled clutch out, examined it, perfectly OK - no oil on it, and well within spec.Reinstalled clutch with new oil O ring.

Renewed clutch slave cylinder with new unit.
Renewed clutch master cylinder with a good second hand unit (seemed to be working perfectly, very smooth and quick action when not attached to clutch line, similar action to another known good unit).

Other issues noted which I think are related
Clutch seems to FEEL at handle to actuate properly (but slow to engage at wheel end) , but after squeezing in and releasing several times, clutch goes hard (as you expect in the front brake type of 'hard' when brake pulled on) and you can only pull the clutch in about 20 to 30% of the way. After about 5 seconds, a repeat grasp of the lever allows clutch to be fully pulled into the handle bar. This happened before I renewed slave and master cylinders as well. It is as though the clutch fluid is taking its time to release back into the system? The clutch fluid seemed a bit dirty andI tried replacing it but not have confident I replaced all in that was in the line. Clymer manual suggests among other things, clutch plate spring may be too weak but I find this hard to believe as it seemed fine when I pulled the clutch out. My guess is there is something in the hydraulic line but since there is a new slave and master, it only leaves the line and it seems all too odd to me. Any ideas out there as to what might be going on?
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 5th, 2009, 2:27 pm
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Well, you've done work on everything else, so that leaves the hydraulic line itself. But, like you, I can't think of what could be the issue unless the line has been kinked. It's acting like something in the line, that is presenting itself as a one-way valve. Part of that line is flexible, part of it's is metal tubing. Connections that something can catch on or get lodged against. Also, do banjo bolts get clogged? The line is all that's left...



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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 5th, 2009, 3:41 pm
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An aquaintence of mine has a KTM whose rear brake would not release. We traced the trouble to a brake hose breaking down internally and not letting the fluid travel back into the reservior when the pedal was released.
I think your problem might be one of the clutch hoses breaking down also.

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 5th, 2009, 5:17 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucecha
An aquaintence of mine has a KTM whose rear brake would not release. We traced the trouble to a brake hose breaking down internally and not letting the fluid travel back into the reservior when the pedal was released.
I think your problem might be one of the clutch hoses breaking down also.
A hose sometimes will act like a one way check vale meaning with press from the pull of the lever will over ride the inner lining restriction but when the hose is relaxed the inner liner of the hose will close off any return press in the line causing a lock up effect..happens on brake lines at times causing a caliper to not release
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 5th, 2009, 6:00 pm
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Maybe I'm mistaken, but the clutch has a plate in it that acts like a spring. I think they had some issues with it loosing it's shape from heat causing the clutch to slip.

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 6th, 2009, 5:40 am
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The clutch hose from the master cylinder to the slave is unlikely to be the problem if it's the pretty hard black plastic like mine, not rubber. But check for any sharp kinks under the tank.

When the clutch was apart, I hope you carefully checked the pushrod by rolling it along a glass plate, that the push rod hole was clear of any rubbish and it is in the right way around. The rod should be a very loose sliding fit (which often makes it rattle).

The clutch diaphragm plate shouldn't distort unless there's been some serious damage from overheating and you would spot the signs of bluing on the plates.

I hope you found and fitted the large wire spacer ring correctly which sits under the diaphragm plate, when it went back together and that was pretty true and flat.

Presumably you did blow through the clutch line with an air line, just to make sure there was no trapped debris? The exit/entry holes in the banjo couplings (particularly at the slave) are pretty small.

You could try a simple test: Pull and release the clutch several times, then quickly slightly crack the bleed nipple or top banjo (watch paintwork!). If fluid whooshes out, then there is a hydraulic stoppage somewhere and you released the back pressure. If the lines have no pressure (just a slight dribble of fluid) then I can only suggest it might be a push rod problem.



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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 6th, 2009, 7:12 am Thread Starter
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re Clutch issues -too hard basket??

Thanks everyone for your great replies! You rock.
Weekend is coming up and I'll try some of your ideas.
The thought of pulling the gearbox etc out again leaves me cold, hope it is just a line blockage....
Will keep you posted once I get a conclusive answer.
Roger
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old Aug 8th, 2009, 4:02 am Thread Starter
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may have found the problem

Have discovered a kink in pipeline, right at the handle-bar banjo coupling. Hoepfully this is the villian. Will replace clutch line and try again. Will let you know the final outcome.
thanks everyone for your input, doubt if I would have found this otherwise.
Roger
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old Mar 21st, 2011, 6:13 am Thread Starter
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Problem solved

Sorry, I see forgot to update this.
The problem was the kink in the in the line next to the banjo at the handle bar. Replaced it with a new line, smooth as....
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old Jan 30th, 2012, 12:39 pm
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Hi,

I have just posted for advice on my own clutch saga. I want to say how impressed I was to read that you work on your K12rs clutch. Do you have a garage? A work bench bikestand:? Are special BMW tools required.

Finally, yoiur comments on my post (paddywac) would be appreciated.

Best
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