K1200RS - Fuel Line Problem - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2009, 5:26 am Thread Starter
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Exclamation K1200RS - Fuel Line Problem

Hello folks, my 02KRS with 66K turns over but won't start. I checked all the normal stuff: The fuel pump charges, the kickstand is up - the bike is in N - the switch is in the middle - All lights are ok - no smell of gas from exhaust - battery is ok.

I changed the QD male only a day earlier - drove all day ok. On way home bike wanted to cut out during idle, got home parked the bike and next morning ahhhhghhh it would not start. BMW says it could be some dirt ot loose and blocked something while I was playing with the QD, or a hose is loose in the gas tank.

I plan to take off the plastic and take off the tank, remove the fuel pump and look for loose or blocked hose inside/out of the tank.

Any advice would be appreciated, esp. for the following questions:

a) Where is the fuel filter and should I change it
b) Any links to a good manuals online with picks would be great

Thanks
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2009, 7:57 am
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You have all the right ideas. If you think your fuel filter has been changed - DON'T go in the tank first. Issues may arise with the fuel pump flange sealing back afterwards. The fuel filter is INSIDE the tank!

Check there's no blockage in the tank vent: Does the motor start and run with the gas cap loosened?

It's highly likely your work on the QD is related. Did you get the fuel line hoses pinched?

The QD's each have an internal valve to hold back fuel when disconnected. Turn the key on and off to pressurise the fuel rail (pump whirrs). WITH CARE disconnect a QD and with a catch bowl underneath, poke a toothpick against the ball valve and see if fuel spurts out confirming the rail was pressurised.You should get this on the delivery side. If you try the same thing on the return, fuel will still come out but not under pressure. Dry and no fuel means something is up like the filter is clogged or after it got clogged the internal fuel line blew off.

Loose internal gas tank hose has caught a few out if a decent worm screw or Oetiker ring hasn't been fitted. The absolute worst was somebody who found their internal line fixed with nylon tywraps! These lines pressurise to about 60 psi - so take care!



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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2009, 9:49 am
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I can't agree more....do not go in the tank unless you have replacement clamps handy,and maybe a new flange seal too.The small clamps that hold the fuel overflow lines to the flange at the bottom will have to be replaced.So will the clamps on the filter if you decide to change it.And if you go in there make sure the bent tubes going through the flange where the overflows connect are clear, there has been quite a few problems there.
You said you replaced a QD, I just did that last week, and after removing them there was residue of something left in one of the hoses,I had to carefully clean it so it would not go plug the injectors.
Fuel injection clamps are the way to go, they should be available at any auto parts store.
You never know what you are going to find in there.......a well preserved wasp and a bit of dirt for me.....!

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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2009, 9:53 am
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Fwiw, when on did mine (GT, and never do the female or plate or "sealed" side! ), the male connector had such sharp barbs (I cut it off the hose since I couldn't pull it loose) it could conceivably have cut some of the rubber inside the hose free. Had I persisted without cutting it off, I could have a bunch of little rubber bits floating around in the fuel rail.

Something's messed up. My bet is on the fuel side right now...although BMW is noted for failing electrical issues too (i.e. cut wires, bad switchgear, etc.).

Good luck.


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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2009, 3:57 pm
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I'll bet it relates to what you did last.
Probably nicked the i.d. of the fuel line while installing the the new QD. The rubber piece might be caught in the QD, blocking fuel flow!

Bruce C
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2009, 6:12 pm Thread Starter
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Still - No Go

Thanks everyone for such a welcome responses. New to BMW and this forum and it is nice to know good people are out there. I did not take off tank. I tried everything, including the toothpick test. Here is what I found:

1) No crimps in line - look good

2) Tried to start with loose gas cap - no go

3) I took off the male OD that I replaced last - and looked inside and looked clean (I guess there is a white mess inside and in bright light it looked clean no deposit or loose rubber) .

4) I charged the fuel system - tuned off the key - took off the QD and here is what I found:

With the hoses coming from tank

Hose 1 Female QD (going to engine I assume) - put in toothpick and lots of gas came out (mind you not spraying but good flow would fill up my basin). The male end looks ok - ring is good - clicks in place

Hose 2 Male QD - nothing - And the Female QD (i guess this is the return) - Nothing not even a drop here when I put in the toothpick.

So gas is coming out of the tank but blocked somewhere going to the engine. I could guess:

a) since I only changed the male QD for the Return hose - something may be wrong with the female QD - almost feel like removing it and charging the system and turning turning the engine over. It should gush out - A bit scared about that.

Any advice?
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2009, 6:59 pm
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Normally when the pump has primed the rail by turing the ignition on, wait for whirring, then turn off, the fuel rail should remain charged at 60 psi for a very long time. Mine stays 'charged' for hours. That tells you the pump is delivering the pressure. Using your toothpick the fuel doesn't just flow out under gravity, it squirts out at 60 psi until the pressure drops. You can sometimes get this if you break the QD's too slowly.

No you shouldn't be cranking the engine, anyway the fuel pump won't prime again until there is rpm - ie the engine has started.

At first I wondered if you had got the flow and return swapped over, but since you rode the bike that's unlikely unless by chasing this problem you could have swapped them over? It's best practice to reverse the male and female ends on the flow and return so you can't do this.

Make sure that when both 1/2's of the QD are mated, the non return valve balls are lifted and there is actually a through path.

You are a bit blind because you really don't know if the fuel pump is delivering its proper pressure (around 60 psi). If it isn't, fuel will not return past the pressure regulator back to the tank so what you think is a blockage may be a faulty fuel pump or blocked filter - which still leaves open the possibility of problems inside the tank causing reduced pressure output from the pump. I made up a pressure test line using a Tee piece, small pressure guage, and a male/female QD so I could break a QD and insert it in the line. The fuel pump delivers pressure in excess of the fixed regulator in the rail and fuel continuously flowing from the flow side and returning back to the tank. When the injectors open they draw fuel away from the continuous stream.

Your work on the QD may have dislodged something which has traveled downstream, so that is still an open possibility, but It would have to be a pretty big lump of stuff to block the path through the fuel rail regulator.

Testing the fuel line pressure first could avoid going into the tank. Unless you can confirm the fuel pump delivery pressure with a guage is low, it sounds like you may have to go inside the tank for a look around.

At the point your bike started to act up, had you filled up with new gas?



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Last edited by voxmagna; Aug 22nd, 2009 at 7:06 pm.
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 2009, 4:45 am Thread Starter
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Fuel Line Pressure Test

No same gas. I drove it 70km after changing 1 male QD (no chance of puting ball on wrong side) - with no issues. I did not get the QD lines mixed up (they are offset). I am stupid (wife keeps telling me) but not that stupid (well according to my therapist)

Yeah the pressure was not a 60 PSI kind - it should have sprayed at the first hint of a push of the ball with the toothpick. Yeah it was a gravity gush.

After the single male QD change - 70km no probs - the warning signs happened driving home and during that 30 min, every time the bike idled at 1000rpm - it would wanna die - come back up o 1000 tand then 2 sec latter wanna die ( 400-600rpm ). Does this sound like fuel pump issue? Could the pressure not be building due to a loose hose inside the tank?

You made a great suggestion to make a fuel line psi tester. I will fabricate it today - good excuse to go to the store and buy toys. I won't wanna wait for a shipment from Omega so I will check the local part shops in Toronto NOT BMW ($60 for a set!!!) So I buy 1/4 inch ID diameter QD - what is the OD?

Thanks!

Last edited by Toronto_AQ; Aug 23rd, 2009 at 5:00 am.
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 2009, 6:07 am
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You could start quick and dirty (QD!) just get a plastic barbed T piece and remove the male/female QD from your line. 5/16 ID from memory, about 8mm in Euro money.

I used a standard 2" air pressure gauge 0-100 psi. If like me you have been swapping the plastic QD's for metal, you should end up with a spare male + female plastic QD you removed (change the O rings!) to make up your pressure tester. Doing this makes it easy to drop it in the line anytime ahead. CPC metal and plastic QD's from Omega are compatible.

In the meantime to eliminate any faults with the QD's you have, buy 2 straight barbed couplers to replace the QD's, as well as the guage T connector.

It sounds like some kind of sequence of events unknown which has stopped the pump delivering pressure. Your ride was slowly failing (reducing delivery pressure) which makes me suspicious now that you may eventually be going into the tank for a look see.

I have found occasionally when breaking fuel lines that the pump makes an unusual noise at key on and the bike won't run, but I don't think this is your problem. I think it's caused by an airlock in the line. Usually after poking the QD valve to release any back pressure then key on, the problem never comes back.



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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 2009, 3:30 pm Thread Starter
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No Pressure

No pressure in the lines. Gentlemen I'm going in! But first I will go and get the replacement clamps...etc that I will need.
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