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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 2012, 7:52 am Thread Starter
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Smile Hi from Newbie.....need advice please...

Just bought my first Bm and went for a K1200RS 1998 model.
Must admit, the bike is growing on me day to day but have a few issues. At 6'4 , i find the bike a bit cramped. will be ordering the pegs lowering kit from pirates today an probably look to lift the seat an aditional inch or so. My big gripe is front rotors... mine have circularplay in thrm which indicates either the bobins have worn or the disc slots have opened up. also at very low gentle stopping speeds the bike discs seem to have a varience in thickness as you can feel uneven stopping. I have also been told the rotors on these are a bit of a design issue. The bike has 55k miles on but rotors are not masively scored or worn yet. Do i ignore this issue and keep riding it?? Any advice appreciated.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 2012, 8:51 am
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The variance in thickness, entirely possible. I have a rear one here showing just that. Destroyed in just a few thousand Kms using cheap pads. Calipers will not show them variances as their measuring surface is about 1", you have to use a micrometer to really see what is going on.

Cheap(er) aftermarket pads and most HHs do not work well with BMW rotors, that's an expensive lesson a few of us have learned the hard way.

Yes could also be the mounting, the proper method of installing new ones and checking the rotors is in Max's parts fiche, find your bike there then the brakes parts fiche and look down there is a PDF on all that.Under "Oval Head screws", that is the mountings for the rotors.

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fic...9&rnd=04052012

On my bike the paint on the wheel under the "rotors/screws" was flaking at the mounting points, could have thrown the rotors off.

And then maybe go look at what I had to say about all that there and there, you may just be able to save some money.

http://www.k-bikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25284
http://www.k-bikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25263

And edit: a small amount of fore & aft play at the "bobbins" that is normal for most floating rotors, my bike does show some of that and others I have looked at. How much is normal that I don't know.

Benelli 50cc at 14
Yamaha RD 200 at 16
Yamaha RD 350 at 17
Honda CB 750 F at 18
Honda V45 Sabre at 24
BMW K100RS at 27
BMW R100GS at 34
BMW K1200RS at 53

Last edited by H96669; Apr 25th, 2012 at 9:00 am.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 2012, 4:34 pm
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Me again...This came from your side of the pond, in answer to a similar question.Altough I understand bobbins, always tought they were for sewing or fishing eels. If you are into removing them for checks the bolts are loctited in there and may be hard to remove. Heat is your friend there, you don't want to strip those or pull the threads out with the Loctite.

{Hello,on the front did you replace the bobbins and washers?,if not these can wear un evenly so that there is differing amounts of play allowing the disc to move giving a pulsating feeling at the lever like a warped disc,Cheers ps if this is the case replace them or you will trash one or more discs }

Now that I remember, there is also a service bulletin on them "Bobbins", applies to early 98s, I'll see if I have it somewhere.

Benelli 50cc at 14
Yamaha RD 200 at 16
Yamaha RD 350 at 17
Honda CB 750 F at 18
Honda V45 Sabre at 24
BMW K100RS at 27
BMW R100GS at 34
BMW K1200RS at 53
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 2012, 5:56 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farway
Just bought my first Bm and went for a K1200RS 1998 model.
Must admit, the bike is growing on me day to day but have a few issues. At 6'4 , i find the bike a bit cramped. will be ordering the pegs lowering kit from pirates today an probably look to lift the seat an aditional inch or so. My big gripe is front rotors... mine have circularplay in thrm which indicates either the bobins have worn or the disc slots have opened up. also at very low gentle stopping speeds the bike discs seem to have a varience in thickness as you can feel uneven stopping. I have also been told the rotors on these are a bit of a design issue. The bike has 55k miles on but rotors are not masively scored or worn yet. Do i ignore this issue and keep riding it?? Any advice appreciated.
There are many things on Beemers that are done differently to other bikes. Don't make the mistake of doing what comes naturally or what you think is best - it could be wrong and cost you a lot some time ahead. Go and buy the Clymer workshop manual off Amazon and read the posts on this site. All the information you will ever need is here, you just have to put some effort in yourself and search for it.

The front rotors are designed to float in order to take up any slight out of true when the pads close. The holes in the rotors are supposed to be oval! However, this ability to float has a downside and that is a tendency for the rotor to 'rattle' or it may give a clunk when the pads grip. To reduce this problem BMW fit wave washers we call crinkle washers under the bobbins. They are supposed to have sufficient tension that if you grip a rotor and try and move it there should be tension and not hard rattle.

It is a very common problem for these simple and cheap washers to lose their wave/crinkle when they no longer give tension. The solution is to take each one off and replace them, or using a fine pair of needle pliers, reshape them. I have reshaped mine quite a few times, until I had a convenient visit to the Stealer and bought some new spares.

Now you just may have warped or out of true rotors some have found, mot more likely on an older bike is one or more caliper pistons have seized and that is the uneveness you are getting. On a UK MOT they will fail a bike which puts fluctations on their brake effort meter when they gently apply a brake.

I check all my brake caliper pistons are free every annual service now.

As for Loctite, you don't go around using the stuff willy nilly - it will give you a big headache later on. If the spec' says use it then use it. Those wheel bobbins from memory are only M5 or M6. If you have to free up Loctite then use heat. If you shear the stud then it will be a pain repairing the wheel rim thread.



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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 2012, 8:21 pm
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If your VIN is within this range, send me your Email via PM, you really need to read what I have here.

K 1200 RS: ZA 51792 - ZA 51927

Benelli 50cc at 14
Yamaha RD 200 at 16
Yamaha RD 350 at 17
Honda CB 750 F at 18
Honda V45 Sabre at 24
BMW K100RS at 27
BMW R100GS at 34
BMW K1200RS at 53
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 2012, 10:11 am
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Farway, I question the change in thickness. Have you measured the rotors with a micrometer? As to feeling pulsing as you brake, it's more likely the rotors have warped. This can be checked with a dial indicator but making sure you're reading only rotor runout and not fork motion takes a bit of skill. In short, I'd have a chat with an authorized BMW technician. Getting it wrong on the front brakes can take the shine off your day.

As to raising the seat, don't! I'm 6' 1" (34" inseam) and I found the lower seat position works well even on long rides. Better still, it keeps the COG lower and, overall, the ergos with the bars and windscreen just flat work better. One small riding change may help: instead of putting the arch of your feet on the pegs, slide your feet back so the ball of your foot is on the pegs. This, at least for me, is a slightly more stable position when I'm cruising. Back in traffic, the feet slide forward. Keep in mind the brakes are linked, so pulling the front brake handle applies rear brakes, too. Tapping the brakes to scrub off a bit of speed, there's no need to reach for the rear brake pedal.

Not all who wander are lost. Which still leaves room for more than a few lost wanderers...

Red Flash - '03 K1200RS, lightly farkled
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 2012, 1:08 pm
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His bike is a '98 like mine.

It won't have linked brakes, it will have Brembo calipers and I bet he will have one or more pistons seized he does not know about giving those symptoms.



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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 2012, 3:30 pm
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Welcome

Welcome Farway, fellow Newb here. Bought my 98 K1200RS (Red) last weekend and I love it. I also own a ZX9R which I will have to sell soon. Live in Surrey, England.

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 2012, 8:47 am
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I guess we lost the OP......I'll post some of it here, just in case someone else has juddering with their 98. Some may just have escaped the servicing/checks/repairs. I already posted the VIN affected, but the specs should still apply in case some of them bobbins (rollers) have worn. And who knows what can have happened on older bikes where parts may have been mismatched.

1) Brake judder developing over the course of time or the front brake lever
pulsating when brakes are applied.
2) Deformation of the brake disc seating surfaces on the wheel rim.
Description: Incorrect rollers (five possible for each brake disc) on the mounting points of
the front brake discs
Until calendar week 39/98 there was no obvious difference in the appearance
of the rollers for the R 1100 S and those for the K 1200 RS or K 1200 LT,
although the former are 0.5 mm shorter. Total length is 7.65 mm for the
R 1100 S rollers, 8.15 mm for the K 12 models.
As of calendar week 39/98, the rollers for the R 1100 S have a grooved end
face to distinguish them from the longer type
If in doubt, measure the height.
Concern: The axial play of the front brake discs on the K 1200 RS and LT models must
be at least 0.7 mm. If the short (7.65mm) rollers of the R 1100 S are fitted on
these models, this play is only 0.2 - 0.5 mm.
Effects: With the shorter roller installed the force applied to the brake discs by the
spring washers increases, with the result that wheel deflections are
transmitted more directly to the brake discs.
Important

Note: Check all mounting
points of the front brake discs for the
proper clearance (0.7 mm feeler gauge)
as on the same bike some rollers may
be correct and others too short
. Make
sure that when inserted at a suitable
point between the brake disc and the
spring washer, the feeler gauge can be
slipped easily all the way into contact
with the securing screw.

If you care about them specs, that's 0.5 mm difference between the two type of rollers and that is about the thickness of the paint on the wheel mounting points. Mine was flaking possibly throwing the specs off and causing a very slight pulsing of the brakes. Fixed now by cleaning them mounting points and a few other maintenance things.


BTW the fasteners do have Loctite on them, BMW recommends 80C for removal. The new ones I installed on my bike came from BMW with RED Loctite on them, Micro-encapsulated them are called.

Benelli 50cc at 14
Yamaha RD 200 at 16
Yamaha RD 350 at 17
Honda CB 750 F at 18
Honda V45 Sabre at 24
BMW K100RS at 27
BMW R100GS at 34
BMW K1200RS at 53

Last edited by H96669; Apr 27th, 2012 at 8:56 am.
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