1999 k1200rs Dakar idle noise - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2012, 1:28 am Thread Starter
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1999 k1200rs Dakar idle noise

Firstly, brand new to this forum. Bought the bike with 8100 miles for $4200 about a week and a half ago. Seems to run great. The guy I bought it from mentioned a "gravel" something noise at idle. Bike seemed to run great but this noise was apparent. Did I just get ripped off and buy a bad motor bike or what? I just dropped over $1200 on hard cases, brackets, rack, so I'm into this bike pretty deep. Any replies are appreciated. Thanks.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2012, 2:28 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brawhit1989
Firstly, brand new to this forum. Bought the bike with 8100 miles for $4200 about a week and a half ago. Seems to run great. The guy I bought it from mentioned a "gravel" something noise at idle. Bike seemed to run great but this noise was apparent. Did I just get ripped off and buy a bad motor bike or what? I just dropped over $1200 on hard cases, brackets, rack, so I'm into this bike pretty deep. Any replies are appreciated. Thanks.
"Box of rocks?"...Its normal.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2012, 3:22 am Thread Starter
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"Box of rocks?"...Its normal.
Do you or anyone know what it is that's causing the noise? Is really just the noise the engine makes? Is there anything that could/should be done to eliminate it?
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2012, 4:42 am
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Search for box O rocks. These bikes do not have a flywheel to absorb engine impulses which are worst at low rpm idle. The crank output drives an intermediate gear and shaft to align higher up for the clutch and driveline.

What you hear at stops is these meshing gears rattling back and forth. Once the bike is rolling and the engine/driveline is fully loaded you should not hear so much and certainly not when running.

Most just wear earplugs and accept it as there is no harm being done. There is a fix which requires some re-shimming inside the engine, but how long it would stay quiet is not certain.

If you are worried about paying the $1200 for accessories, you will not want to consider paying for an engine teardown to maybe make the idle quieter.

Your best option is to accept it like the rest of us until you get a clutch or oil leak problem, then at the teardown carefully sort ot the shims at the same time.



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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2012, 5:16 am
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Originally Posted by voxmagna
Search for box O rocks. These bikes do not have a flywheel to absorb engine impulses which are worst at low rpm idle. The crank output drives an intermediate gear and shaft to align higher up for the clutch and driveline.

What you hear at stops is these meshing gears rattling back and forth. Once the bike is rolling and the engine/driveline is fully loaded you should not hear so much and certainly not when running.

Most just wear earplugs and accept it as there is no harm being done. There is a fix which requires some re-shimming inside the engine, but how long it would stay quiet is not certain.

If you are worried about paying the $1200 for accessories, you will not want to consider paying for an engine teardown to maybe make the idle quieter.

Your best option is to accept it like the rest of us until you get a clutch or oil leak problem, then at the teardown carefully sort ot the shims at the same time.
Hey Vox, why is it that I can put ever so light pressure on my clutch lever and the box O rocks stops? I even thought of a small shim or spacer at the clutch master cylinder to hold the lever in a little, but figured someone else would have thought of that years ago, so discounted it as a bad idea

2002 K1200RS Owned from new. Pacific Blue, Ohlins. 183,000kmís
2016 K1300R Black, Remus hexacone. 6000kmís
The family history
1951 AJS 500 single - my Dads
1916 Triumph Type H, Western front, France WW1 - my Grandads

Last edited by flyingkiwi; Jun 20th, 2012 at 5:24 am.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2012, 11:19 am Thread Starter
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Not like I'm panicking about $1200 on accessories, BMW everything is spendy (but quality) so it comes with the territory. My concern was spending so far a total of $5400 on a bike that may have had a big motor problem.

Honda Nighthawk-50mph+raccoon=totaled
1986 Honda Magna V45-sold to a tween for his 1st bike=future totaled bike
1999 BMW K1200RS DAKAR-I'm 23 years old and this thing will probably be running after I'm dead, it is a Beamer. Love it.

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 21st, 2012, 4:41 am
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Hey Vox, why is it that I can put ever so light pressure on my clutch lever and the box O rocks stops? I even thought of a small shim or spacer at the clutch master cylinder to hold the lever in a little, but figured someone else would have thought of that years ago, so discounted it as a bad idea
Yes I find the same thing.

There are two issues to the noise. I think there is is a tendency for the clutch rod to rattle in the long shaft hole. On most cars, there is a tension spring holding the clutch fork bearing against the push rod and the bearing is running free most of the time. On the K if they did that then the teeny bearing in the slave would wear out faster than the seals! So when the clutch is released, the rod is left rolling inside the shaft. When I put mine back I found the pushrod was something like 9mm in a 10mm hole. Just for kicks I wrapped some ptfe tape around 2 ends of the pushrod and when it all went back, a lot of rattle had gone. But then as I might have expected, it came back after 1500 miles. I should have machined up a couple of short ptfe tubular inserts, but 0.5mm of wall thickness would need some skill. Now, BMW started supplying that little foam thingy that slides on the push rod. I do not think it is to stop clutch fluid running down, so much as stopping some rattle. It won't do that for long though.

The second contribution to the rattle are the internal shims on the output shaft that Bob (RFW) has explained very well.

When you hold in the clutch and despite the slave bearing, there will be some end force, friction and drag put on the output shaft and I think that also pre-loads the crank/output shaft gears stopping them from oscillating.

Unfortunately, when I had those internal parts in pieces I did not give the shims enough attention as I had not read Bobs post. - I now wish I had.

I am waiting until I get another clutch problem with an excuse to go inside, but I did such a good job nothing has gone wrong yet and I shall live with the 'rocks'. Anyway, you should not be spending time sat at stop signals with these bikes.!

Apart from fine tuning the shims, I remember what the light weight ali clutch housing looked like and I wonder what would happen if it was a bit heavier, like a small flywheel?



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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 2012, 10:51 pm
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Mine sounds like a box of rocks too, it is a 2000 K1200RS, the bike rides great. It has taken a little to get used to the sounds and rattles. Mine also has a bit of an engine buzz or harmonic at 2500-3000 rpm. I worried about it for a while, but I have a neighbor with an older K75, and his sounds just like it, same buzz at speed, same box of rocks rattle at idle. I am still a newbie to the BMW world but these bikes seem to have a few small issues that are unique to the design, but are far outweighed by the performance and ride quality.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2012, 4:23 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
Yes I find the same thing.

There are two issues to the noise. I think there is is a tendency for the clutch rod to rattle in the long shaft hole. On most cars, there is a tension spring holding the clutch fork bearing against the push rod and the bearing is running free most of the time. On the K if they did that then the teeny bearing in the slave would wear out faster than the seals! So when the clutch is released, the rod is left rolling inside the shaft. When I put mine back I found the pushrod was something like 9mm in a 10mm hole. Just for kicks I wrapped some ptfe tape around 2 ends of the pushrod and when it all went back, a lot of rattle had gone. But then as I might have expected, it came back after 1500 miles. I should have machined up a couple of short ptfe tubular inserts, but 0.5mm of wall thickness would need some skill. Now, BMW started supplying that little foam thingy that slides on the push rod. I do not think it is to stop clutch fluid running down, so much as stopping some rattle. It won't do that for long though.

The second contribution to the rattle are the internal shims on the output shaft that Bob (RFW) has explained very well.

When you hold in the clutch and despite the slave bearing, there will be some end force, friction and drag put on the output shaft and I think that also pre-loads the crank/output shaft gears stopping them from oscillating.

Unfortunately, when I had those internal parts in pieces I did not give the shims enough attention as I had not read Bobs post. - I now wish I had.

I am waiting until I get another clutch problem with an excuse to go inside, but I did such a good job nothing has gone wrong yet and I shall live with the 'rocks'. Anyway, you should not be spending time sat at stop signals with these bikes.!

Apart from fine tuning the shims, I remember what the light weight ali clutch housing looked like and I wonder what would happen if it was a bit heavier, like a small flywheel?
Vox, I replaced my slave recently (it was not leaking) and while in there replaced the felt on the clutch push rod. I had bought it anyway, so put it on. Thing is my engine has always had very little box of rocks rumble and replacing the felt made no improvement to what little noise there is.
I think you might be onto something with the real reason for the felt, as it is placed almost centre of the pushrod. Now if it was primarily to stop brake fluid getting to the clutch, then the felt should have been placed at the end closest to the slave. And why use a bit of felt anyway? I would think it would eventually soak up completely and allow the brake fluid to seep past. Now to stop a rattle? Felt seems a good choice and location
But I think you answered my question by suggesting the bearing in the slave would wear out very quickly if the slack was taken up. Thanks, I will leave well alone

2002 K1200RS Owned from new. Pacific Blue, Ohlins. 183,000kmís
2016 K1300R Black, Remus hexacone. 6000kmís
The family history
1951 AJS 500 single - my Dads
1916 Triumph Type H, Western front, France WW1 - my Grandads

Last edited by flyingkiwi; Jul 4th, 2012 at 4:29 am.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 2012, 10:37 am
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From memory, the hole in the shaft is 1mm larger than the push rod. Originally I wanted to make two ptfe liners to slip in at either end of the shaft so the pushrod would effectively be sliding on ptfe bushes.

That would mean small ptfe bushes with a wall thickness of less than 0.5mm. I tried seeing what I could do with a floor drill and no lathe, but ptfe is nasty stuff to drill at those thicknesses and picks up on a drill very easily. Then after reading Bobs note on playing with the shims, I thought that was the thing to spend time on if there was ever a 'next time'.



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