Problem replacing slave push rod. - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 2014, 10:07 am Thread Starter
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Question Problem replacing slave push rod.

Hello to all. My first thread so I hope it works out. Currently putting her(2004 K1200GT with 42K miles) back together after replacing trans and engine output seals. Bolted up trans to intermediate housing with little problem after aligning clutch plate by eye and leaving the 6 allen bolts loose. Second try and trans went on nicely. Removed trans, tightened allen bolts cris-cross to 8ft lbs, replaced trans and torqued it down. All seemed well until attempt to replace the slave push rod and it wont advance all the way. Removed the felt ring but same prob. Stops hard about a half inch shy of where it needs to be to allow slave to seat against trans. Yes I do have the long skinny end facing in to the engine shaft but it seems to be unable to go into the bronze bushing. I attached a length of hose so I could rotate it while pushing it in but no way. Rolled the rod on glass and it seems to be straight. Before I re-remove the tranny, has anyone had this problem? Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 2014, 4:35 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obluebeemer
Hello to all. My first thread so I hope it works out. Currently putting her(2004 K1200GT with 42K miles) back together after replacing trans and engine output seals. Bolted up trans to intermediate housing with little problem after aligning clutch plate by eye and leaving the 6 allen bolts loose. Second try and trans went on nicely. Removed trans, tightened allen bolts cris-cross to 8ft lbs, replaced trans and torqued it down. All seemed well until attempt to replace the slave push rod and it wont advance all the way. Removed the felt ring but same prob. Stops hard about a half inch shy of where it needs to be to allow slave to seat against trans. Yes I do have the long skinny end facing in to the engine shaft but it seems to be unable to go into the bronze bushing. I attached a length of hose so I could rotate it while pushing it in but no way. Rolled the rod on glass and it seems to be straight. Before I re-remove the tranny, has anyone had this problem? Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
Recently, someone on the k1200LT forum had a similar problem during a rebuild. He had installed the clutch friction plate the wrong way - the center splines section is not the same offset toward the outside. This will affect the depth of the diaphragm spring where the clutch push rod eventually touches.

Another potential problem is a clutch friction plate that is near OR less than minimum specs (4.5 mm is minimum). Although it seems counter-intuitive, because of the design, as the friction plate wears, the push-rod is being pushed out toward rear of engine (toward slave).

Keep in mind that except for a different transmission (because of reverse gear), the design of the K1200RS and the K1200LT engine/clutch is basically the same.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 2014, 6:17 pm Thread Starter
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I had marked the friction plate spokes with a felt tip pen during disassembly but anything is possible.Friction plate mic'ed up at .215" so it is on the healthy side. Looks like I will be going back in there. I'll post whatever the findings are no mater how embarrassing.
Thanx for the input.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 2014, 6:50 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obluebeemer
I had marked the friction plate spokes with a felt tip pen during disassembly but anything is possible.Friction plate mic'ed up at .215" so it is on the healthy side. Looks like I will be going back in there. I'll post whatever the findings are no mater how embarrassing.
Thanx for the input.
One more info:
If everything is assembled correct on a re-build of the clutch the slave will slide home to within 1/8 inch of flush with the housing. This is valid for a new friction plate with thickness at 6mm (0.236 inch).

As your friction plate is a bit less than new, the push-rod will be further out just a bit.

Also possible that your slave is the problem. Unfortunately there is no published specs how far out the rod should be with a new plate, before the slave is installed. At this point, I really wished that I had measured this last time I did this job - might come handy one day...like now ;-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2014, 7:12 am
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After re-reading your message, I see that you are working too hard - you posted this:
"Bolted up trans to intermediate housing with little problem after aligning clutch plate by eye and leaving the 6 allen bolts loose. Second try and trans went on nicely."

There is no need to do this in 2 steps, in most cases you can just use the push rod with a long socket of proper size. See attached picture.

Sorry, I am not in garage right now so I do not have the exact size of inside diameter of splines on friction plate. You should find a tube or a long socket of proper size with a bit of creativity ;-)
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	K1200RS_clutch_align_install_1.jpg
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John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2014, 1:24 pm Thread Starter
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Thank you for the illustration. I will use that method should I need to dis assemble. Also, push rod is bottoming with almost an inch protruding out from the trans input shaft bearing at the slave bore. What I am now thinking: the clutch housing is splined to the eng output shaft and the diaphram spring sits snugly inside of same, and the trans bolted up nicely to the intermediate hsg, therefore everything has to be aligned. Given that, the remaining suspects are the rod, and the pilot bushing. I sighted down the input shaft with a flashlight. The bore looks straight and the bush is concentric within it. I recalled that the rod stayed in place when I pulled the trans back when I first removed it. I likely bent the smaller dia. tip which would not show when rolling it on glass. Perhaps I"ll buy a new rod and hope it works.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2014, 3:09 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obluebeemer
Thank you for the illustration. I will use that method should I need to dis assemble. Also, push rod is bottoming with almost an inch protruding out from the trans input shaft bearing at the slave bore. What I am now thinking: the clutch housing is splined to the eng output shaft and the diaphram spring sits snugly inside of same, and the trans bolted up nicely to the intermediate hsg, therefore everything has to be aligned. Given that, the remaining suspects are the rod, and the pilot bushing. I sighted down the input shaft with a flashlight. The bore looks straight and the bush is concentric within it. I recalled that the rod stayed in place when I pulled the trans back when I first removed it. I likely bent the smaller dia. tip which would not show when rolling it on glass. Perhaps I"ll buy a new rod and hope it works.
Brand new clutch push-rod from BMW is not cheap (US$ 49), but at least you know what you get.

With EBAY, it is much cheaper but these guys who parts the bikes are not always careful - so it is a bit more risky for such an accurate and important part.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 16th, 2014, 5:10 pm
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I don't have my tear down notes and measurements with me at the moment, but I do know there is 0.5mm of clearance for the push rod around the center of the splined shaft and that is plenty for a straight push rod. At the time I thought I would explore making a ptfe sleeve to push over the push rod and stop it rattling. But that clearance or wall thickness of a ptfe sleeve was just to thin for my basic home machining kit and skills..I did try wrapping some ptfe tape around the push rod which gave noise relief for about 1500 miles. Note: this is not the box of rocks rattle, but a secondary noise problem which I think the foam part is supposed to help cure (temporarily!)

You could try taking a straight length of fence wire about 16 gauge or a welding wire, push it down the shaft and mark the end flush with the spline shaft when it bottoms against the clutch release diaphragm. Compare that length with your push rod length. If it seems about right to hit the slave, then your push rod must be out of true or there is something or oil grunge fouling.After a seal failure you get quite a lot of oil or clutch fluid build up down there. I made a small rag ball wrapped around a welding wire, doused it in brake cleaner and ran it up and down inside until it was clean coming out the end of the shaft.



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Last edited by voxmagna; Feb 16th, 2014 at 5:18 pm.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 17th, 2014, 5:32 am Thread Starter
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I am going to try a new rod. If it is not the cure perhaps I can return it for store credit. I'll get a new pilot bushing too, just in case. Took some measurements yesterday. Distance rod is protruding at slave when it hits bottom is about the same as distance the rod skinny end goes into the pilot bush of the engine shaft, as evidenced by the wear mark on the skinny end. So I think tip of the rod is hitting the bushing edge rather than advancing into it. Yes, there is quite a bit of play around the rod in the bore of tranny shaft and perhaps this argues against my theory, but I really don't know what else to try . Thanks for your thoughts, I'll keep the thread posted.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Feb 20th, 2014, 4:24 pm
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I did a search for the pilot 'bushing' and came up with nothing. I had to make my own clutch pilot tool. I'm not certain, but from the way it felt rotating it I thought the bushing might actually be a very fine needle roller.

It looked a PITA to remove whatever it was and I took care with the pilot mandril not to damage it or hang the weight of the clutch assembly on it and damage the bearing.



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