Starts but does not rev up - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 9th, 2014, 5:25 am Thread Starter
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Starts but does not rev up

2000 K1200RS trying to buy this bike. Sat for 2 years, full of dust, started right up, idled O.K. revs do not come up when throttle is opened. You can father it to 4 or 5k RPM but with no power. No back firing, so its probably fuel shut off due to rich mixture? Smells rich, no intake sound, no fault lights on yet. I am suspecting air mass sensor or even a clogged air filter due to rodents moving in. Does that sound right? Any other suggestions? Mechanically it sounds fine.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 9th, 2014, 5:52 am
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Get at the air filter to rule out the rodents. Highly possible that they moved in.

2001 K1200 RS
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 9th, 2014, 6:41 am
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I( don't know how the rodents could get into the air filter on a K1200RS??? The air intake does have a screen. Unless they chewed through some plastic. Wasps maybe???

Still worth looking at...and the fuel filter. And fresh gas of course, I wouldn't try to start anything with old gas, not worth the problems that can cause later.

But rodents moving in??? Check the exhaust, that happened to me way back then.Cleared that in one big explosion of s...t when the bike finally started but sure took a while for it to even start.

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 9th, 2014, 12:30 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel
2000 K1200RS trying to buy this bike. Sat for 2 years, full of dust, started right up, idled O.K. revs do not come up when throttle is opened. You can father it to 4 or 5k RPM but with no power. No back firing, so its probably fuel shut off due to rich mixture? Smells rich, no intake sound, no fault lights on yet. I am suspecting air mass sensor or even a clogged air filter due to rodents moving in. Does that sound right? Any other suggestions? Mechanically it sounds fine.
Like most fuel-injected modern engine, the fuel-pump and the fuel-filter is inside the tank. When bike sits for long time with old gaz, the pump, the filter and the hoses inside will get damaged and blocked with old gaz turning to varnish. No other way than to inspect, clean and/or replaced these as needed.

My expresssion: "Pay me now or pay me later"-> high probability you will have problem on side of the road later if the job is not done properly now.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 10th, 2014, 2:31 pm Thread Starter
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Update

No rodents in air intake... .
Fuel was definitely bad, you know the smell when you drain it. Fuel filter and lines good. Refilled tank with 1 gallon of fresh fuel and a splash of fuel injector cleaner. Pulled plugs for the heck of it, they had the stale fuel smell and glossy black look. Burned them off, cleaned them, re-installed in perfect condition. Not that it matters, but changed oil and filter while everything was off, wasn't too bad. Looked at all connections etc., all looks good to me.
Bike starts and idles well, after a few seconds it takes some gas, but still not good. Did the throttle reset I read about somewhere, not sure if its real. Engine is not getting fuel.
I have a feeling my fuel injectors are clogged up, could that be? Pulled injectors and blew them out with air, I had to try something, no change. I know "Mr Injector" would clean them properly. Rail had plenty of fuel, But I don't know if I have 60psi of pressure. I will try to measure that tomorrow. Anything else you guys can think of?
Air mass or oxygen sensor maybe?

Last edited by Axel; Aug 10th, 2014 at 5:53 pm.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 10th, 2014, 7:18 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel
No rodents in air intake... .
Fuel was definitely bad, you know the smell when you drain it. Fuel filter and lines good. Refilled tank with 1 gallon of fresh fuel and a splash of fuel injector cleaner. Pulled plugs for the heck of it, they had the stale fuel smell and glossy black look. Burned them off, cleaned them, re-installed in perfect condition. Not that it matters, but changed oil and filter while everything was off, wasn't too bad. Looked at all connections etc., all looks good to me.
Bike starts and idles well, after a few seconds it takes some gas, but still not good. Did the throttle reset I read about somewhere, not sure if its real. Engine is not getting fuel.
I have a feeling my fuel injectors are clogged up, could that be? Pulled injectors and blew them out with air, I had to try something, no change. I know "Mr Injector" would clean them properly. Rail had plenty of fuel, But I don't know if I have 60psi of pressure. I will try to measure that tomorrow. Anything else you guys can think of?
Air mass or oxygen sensor maybe?
No air-mass sensor on k1200. This was used on older K100 and k75 from much earlier generation.

Normal fuel pressure on the output side should be 51 PSI (3.5 bar). Follow the hose that starts from under tank toward front of fuel-rail - that is the pressure side. The other side, from rear of fuel rail will not have any impact (whatever pressure). These BOSH-Motronic system are extremely sensitive to any low fuel pressure (will run like crap).

Difficult to visually check injectors without special tools. Any good car shop used to clean or overhaul BOSH injectors can do these - more or less the same as many cars from Europe.

A bad Oxygen-sensor will not make a K1200 run that crappy, but fuel mileage will go down a lot (from 36-42 mpg to 28-32). You need a GS911 or a dealer's diagnostic computer to check O2 sensor signal and data.

You should NOT assume anything and I would also check compression (preferably with leak-down test). I have seen a K1200 with a bad valves job adjust and 1 tooth jump on timing chain that would run very badly. NOT my bike and there was no valve damage, believe it or not...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 10th, 2014, 7:40 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks for your replies!
I just looked at the fuel pump and filter micro fiche drawing and there are 2 hoses connecting the fuel pump to the filter and filter to the metal tube that carries the 51 or 60 psi pressurized fuel. So I opened the fuel tank to see or listen for fuel movement inside the tank when the fuel pump is activated and what do you know..., its splashing around like crazy inside the fuel tank. I am pretty sure I have zero fuel pressure other than hydrostatic pressure from the fuel level. I will take it apart tomorrow and probably replace the hoses to supply pressurized fuel to the rail. This could be the solution. Do I really need to buy the BMW fuel tube pieces for over $30.- a piece? Any other comments?
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 10th, 2014, 8:10 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel
Thanks for your replies!
I just looked at the fuel pump and filter micro fiche drawing and there are 2 hoses connecting the fuel pump to the filter and filter to the metal tube that carries the 51 or 60 psi pressurized fuel. So I opened the fuel tank to see or listen for fuel movement inside the tank when the fuel pump is activated and what do you know..., its splashing around like crazy inside the fuel tank. I am pretty sure I have zero fuel pressure other than hydrostatic pressure from the fuel level. I will take it apart tomorrow and probably replace the hoses to supply pressurized fuel to the rail. This could be the solution. Do I really need to buy the BMW fuel tube pieces for over $30.- a piece? Any other comments?
During last 3 years, because of ethanol in fuel, these hoses have been failing at an alarming rate. Keep in mind that it happening mainly on 10 years or older k1200, so not that bad considering the age of these hoses.

The 2 short fuel hoses inside tank between pump and filter need to be rated to 100 PSI and need to be certified for submersible operation, Some auto-parts will sell this type of hose by the feet . Reason why it is better to use the more expensive ones from BMW is the 180 bend in one of these 2 hoses - BMW sells it preformed with the bend to avoid doing this to a staight hose (creates a restriction or kink)

A 3rd option that is good and fairly cheap is to buy a set of 3rd party substitute hoses from this supplier. I have done business with them and they sell good stuff:
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/BMW...fp-hosekit.htm

I would not worry too much about the other thinner hoses inside the tank as these are for vent or overflow only. These are low pressure hoses, but while you are there and everything is opened, it would be a good idea to do these as well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 2014, 7:21 pm Thread Starter
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Problem resolution report

The problem is resolved.
As suspected I found a broken fuel line inside the tank between the fuel pump and fuel filter.
Symptoms of that defect is idle or poor idle only without engine revving up when throttle is opened. Root cause is insufficient fuel pressure. Cause of the defect is suspected to be Ethanol that is present up to 10% in any fuel within the U.S.
The problem was found by opening the fuel tank, turning the ignition on and listening or watching for fuel movement inside the fuel tank. There should be no movement or splashing sound. I pulled the fuel pump and replaced the broken hose with a new immersible generic fuel line that actually came with a NAPA 3032 fuel filter for less than $5.-.
I did install that fuel filter as well. The BMW replacement hose costs around $30.- and the filter about another $30.- or more.
Thank you to everybody on this forum who helped with the resolution.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 2014, 8:02 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel
The problem is resolved.
As suspected I found a broken fuel line inside the tank between the fuel pump and fuel filter.
Symptoms of that defect is idle or poor idle only without engine revving up when throttle is opened. Root cause is insufficient fuel pressure. Cause of the defect is suspected to be Ethanol that is present up to 10% in any fuel within the U.S.
The problem was found by opening the fuel tank, turning the ignition on and listening or watching for fuel movement inside the fuel tank. There should be no movement or splashing sound. I pulled the fuel pump and replaced the broken hose with a new immersible generic fuel line that actually came with a NAPA 3032 fuel filter for less than $5.-.
I did install that fuel filter as well. The BMW replacement hose costs around $30.- and the filter about another $30.- or more.
Thank you to everybody on this forum who helped with the resolution.
Glad you got this fixed, BUT... I would never install these NAPA fuel-filter in a K1200. They are not rated for correct microns (particles sizes), neither are they rated for "potential" increased PSI the system can generate in some conditions. It is a crapshoot and it may work for a while. Subject has already been discussed on the K1200LT forum - see this post:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showpost...4&postcount=14

If you want a good filter, but less expensive than the dealer - one that is basically the same as the BMW filter, buy either:
(1) MANN , model MWK44
(2) MAHLE , model KL145
Both of these are the OEM supplier to BMW. When you buy a filter from a BMW dealer, you are in fact buying one of these re-packaged.

Sometimes, you can find these filters in Euro Auto parts store. I also buy the filters from one of these 2 good BMW specialist:
http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/Fue...f-859kl145.htm
http://www.beemerboneyard.com/16142325859.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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