New Boy Brake Failure Warning - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old Dec 18th, 2016, 2:44 pm Thread Starter
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New Boy Brake Failure Warning

Hello to all on the K-Bikes site. Sorry itís a long one but I wanted to give you the whole story.
I picked up a 2002 K12RS with 38k on the clock last Sunday. I took a bit of a risk, as it had no service history, just the paper trail of the last ownerís motís. He had only done 2k since 2012 and suspect it hasnít been serviced in that time. I read all I could on this forum and watched reviews of the bike and all seemed well when I collected her. Abs lights did their thing and went out when I rode off.
The next day I went to admire my new purchase and start her up. No more abs check, just the rapid flash of the brake failure light and then the continuous slow flash. Panic and back to the forum. Read threads where you guys had discussed low battery and low fluids. I ruled out low battery as it was new and Iíd just ridden 70 miles. On inspection of the rear brake reservoir, the outer one was indeed on the bottom level. Joy, this had to be it. Topped it up with fluid and left her. Today I took her for a short run. No abs test at start. Brake Failure light went out and stayed out during the run. The brakes stopped the bike extremely well although I was too nervous to grab enough to test the abs. On return and restart back to rapid flash and then slow 1 second flashes.

My question is:- After a brake failure light due to fluid or low battery does the abs need a diagnostic reset in order to function again. If not I would appreciate suggestions on where to look next.
I love her, but I hope sheís not as temperamental as my ex-wives.
Regards to all,
Keith.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 2016, 12:49 pm
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That dammed servo ABS. The Achilles heel of the K bikes! Do you have an owners manual or the Clymer manual for the bike? Do you have full "power brakes" or just the residual braking? It could be something simple as holding in the brake lever when you turn on the key so the ABS unit can't complete the proper test sequence. You need to get the book out to help determine what fault the flashing light is indicating and go from there. With the key on and the engine off, you should be able to hear the electric pumps run when you apply the front or rear brake individually. If you hear them, that's a good sign. If not, you've got a problem. I'd be willing to ride the bike to a dealer with a non-functioning rear abs, but not with the front brake malfunction. If the bike's brake fluid hasn't been changed (including the ABS flush) it needs to be done anyway. It can be done manually at home, but is a real PITA, in my opinion. I let the dealer do it. Good luck, and let us know what you find out.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 2016, 1:39 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks for reply. To answer your questions. The brakes appear to me to be at full power and I can hear motors running when I apply front and rear brake. I have a workshop manual but not a manual that explains the rapid flash and then flashing at 1 second interval of the brake fail light. The abs test doesn't seem to start. I have just detected what I would describe as a chatter from under the tank when I switch on. I now wonder if this could be the abs relay that is failing. Tomorrow I may check all the electrical connections to the abs unit. First job is to have a full service and all fluids changed. Hopefully the brake issue isn't going to cost me hundreds straight up. Thanks again for help.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 2016, 8:39 am Thread Starter
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Happy to be a D!ck!!!
Received my riders manual this morning and I can now see that the abs lights are functioning as they should be. A case of brake failure not meaning brake failure at all. For some reason I had it in my head that the triangular warning with the !!!!! was the light that sequenced during brake test. Anyhoot all well at the moment for this new rider.
Merry xmas to all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Doh!!!!!
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 2016, 3:49 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithBrown View Post
Happy to be a D!ck!!!
Received my riders manual this morning and I can now see that the abs lights are functioning as they should be. A case of brake failure not meaning brake failure at all. For some reason I had it in my head that the triangular warning with the !!!!! was the light that sequenced during brake test. Anyhoot all well at the moment for this new rider.
Merry xmas to all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Doh!!!!!
For USA market, on a 2002-2004 model like yours, you have the Integral ABS with servos (also called IABS system).
To complete the owners manual info on the ABS brake system warnings, this is a short resume I wrote a while ago for another forums:

The IABS performs a self-diagnostic in 2 steps. Immediately after you switch ON the ignition, the “ABS warning” light will flash 4 times per second (fast) and the “General Warning” light will stay ON – this will last only for 4 to 5 seconds. Also, you will hear the ABS unit servo motors for about 1 second during this check (if basic internal diagnostic is OK). See attached photo for dash warnings...

After this 1st diagnostic step is completed, the “ABS warning” light will change to a SLOW flash (1 per second) and the “General Warning” light will go OFF”. Both warning lights will stay in this state until the motorcycle moves to a speed of at least 3 mph (5 Km/h) – at which point the IABS can do the pull-away test and turn OFF the remaining “ABS warning” light. This will complete the last step of the IABS diagnostic.

During the 1st diagnostic step (after ignition ON), the IABS will run various checks including:
- the front brake lever is at rest (not pulled) and the brake switch has continuity,
- the rear brake pedal is at rest (not pressed) and the brake switch has continuity,
- the fluid level of both reservoirs (either in ABS unit or out of unit like K1200)
- the rear / brake light is not defective,
- the battery voltage as seen at the ABS unit is not too low (value not documented),
- Both ABS wheel speed sensors are connected.

During the 2nd diagnostic step (moving), the IABS will make sure that both wheel speed sensors are responding correctly (signal as seen by rotation speed).

As shown in owner manual, based on negative result of any of these checks, you may see various combinations of both both warning lights stay on BEFORE or AFTER the last moving check has been completed (with either slow of fast flash rate). Any faults will also be logged in the ABS unit memory and can be read later using dealer's computer or a GS911 (unless memory is erased by disconnecting the battery for 10+ minutes).
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Last edited by sailor; Dec 23rd, 2016 at 3:56 pm.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 2016, 5:30 pm Thread Starter
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Thank you for the explanation, I am happy to report that my lights do indeed follow the sequence you describe. Brake Failure light is a tad disconcerting to a new owner. I have a very nice local man who is going to do a service and complete fluid change on the 5th of Jan. He has been involved in building race bm's for the isle of man tt so am sure he will do a good job. I have read a few of your very informative threads and will ask him about the brake lines and quick disconnects. From what I'm reading they are a must do and at 38k mine is probably overdue.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old Jan 2nd, 2017, 2:47 pm
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Unless your brake lines show signs of dry rot (really ozone-induced rubber failure) or you're serious about track days, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

But the QD's are s different story. Do them like it happened yesterday. Failure will certainly ruin at least a ride, if not more. This is a DIY change unless you want to go nuts with the spiffy crimp-on hose clamps. IMHO, simple screw-type hose clamps are fine. Get a set of QD's (Pirate's Lair, Bimmer Boneyard, etc.), pop the old clamps off, pull the old QD's off (not which gender goes where), slide the hose clamps on, stuff the new QD's in place (be right about the genders), tighten the clamps and sleep better at night.

The tupperware has to come off, as does the gas tank. For obvious reasons, this process works better with a near empty tank. Expect to have some gas come out of the open fuel lines; plan accordingly. Take a look around looking for anything that looks questionable and take notes for later action. With the tank off, this is a good time to change the air filter. K&N greasy filters are only for track day folks, go with the OEM type.

Not all who wander are lost. Which still leaves room for more than a few lost wanderers...

Red Flash - '03 K1200RS, lightly farkled
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2017, 10:37 am Thread Starter
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Thank you for advice. I have just dropped her off with a local man for a full service and all fluids changed including brake fluid. A line in the sand. I will probably do fluid changes myself in the future. Having looked closer at the QD's, I appear to have a cpc plastic female with a metal male as sold by moto-bins in the uk. Probably not ideal but better than the original parts I guess. Having examined the brake hoses they do appear to be in good order. I think the bike has been garaged most of it's life. The weather in the uk not usually good for next couple of months, so I will, as you suggest probably strip off the plastics and give her a good look over. I noticed that the right hand side grill is loose at the bottom and needs looking at. I've only ridden about a hundred miles on her, so still finding my feet. First impressions are that it's a keeper though, feels very secure once rolling.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2017, 9:54 pm
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That's fundamentally good news. The "mix and match" QD's probably replaced the plastic male fittings (main failure point) with metal fittings. Better to do metal to metal, though.

Brake bleeding with servo ABS isn't quite the same as bleeding the brakes on a car. Proceed with care.

Not all who wander are lost. Which still leaves room for more than a few lost wanderers...

Red Flash - '03 K1200RS, lightly farkled
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old Jan 5th, 2017, 1:48 pm Thread Starter
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As you say, most reports appear to be of the male side breaking, I'll live with what I have for now and put metal females on my Christmas list, along with I believe viton o rings. A little disappointed that I didn't get her back after the service today. She apparently needed new rear brake pads. I had heard a strange intermittent metal grinding noise when pushing her out of the garage. Ah well, if that's all he finds I'll be a happy bunny.
Thanks for the reassuring reply.
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