Intermittent general warning light - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By H96669
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old Jun 5th, 2019, 8:25 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stillwater, MN, USA
Posts: 70
Intermittent general warning light

In the past year or so my '03 GT has developed a strange habit: every now and then the 'general warning' light stays on after starting up and pulling away. The ABS flashing light goes out as it's supposed to. The weird part is that I can stop, shut off the bike, and restart and the light goes off the way it's supposed to when I pull away. I can't detect any problems with brake lights or anything else the general warning is supposed to indicate.
This behavior does not happen any more or less frequently that it did when it first started.
I'm thinking I don't have a real issue to worry about. Has anyone else experienced this? If so, what was the problem and the fix?
Thanks in advance for any insights.
lljanssen is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 2019, 4:28 pm
Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
Posts: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljanssen View Post
In the past year or so my '03 GT has developed a strange habit: every now and then the 'general warning' light stays on after starting up and pulling away. The ABS flashing light goes out as it's supposed to. The weird part is that I can stop, shut off the bike, and restart and the light goes off the way it's supposed to when I pull away. I can't detect any problems with brake lights or anything else the general warning is supposed to indicate.
This behavior does not happen any more or less frequently that it did when it first started.
I'm thinking I don't have a real issue to worry about. Has anyone else experienced this? If so, what was the problem and the fix?
Thanks in advance for any insights.
On all Integral ABS with servos (mainly 2002-2006 in USA market), there 2 scenarios where you will see a STEADY (non flashing) "General warning" (triangle shaped) alone without any other ABS warning:

- CAUSE CASE 1) The single rear / tail light bulb is either burned, loose , bad contact, OR has been modified using a non std bulb that does not pull the same amperage (like a LED or any of these special rear flashing kit). The bulb is being operated by the ABS modulator electronics and the current to it is monitored.

The monitoring circuitry in the ABS modulator is able to tell if either the brake filament or the night light filament (inside the single bulb) is defective. In both cases it will set the "general warning" steady as a warning something needs to be fixed.

IF the night (low intensity) filament is burned, it will use the brake filament at a lower intensity (making you and the driver behind believe all is well). In such case, the "general warning" goes AND STAYS ON starting from about 1 second after ignition ON. Any low amp draw (like a an alternate LED replacement bulb) will cause the same as a burned bulb as-far-as the monitoring circuit is concerned.

On the other hand, If the higher intensity Brake filament is burned instead, the "general warning" will go on ONLY when you apply either brake Lever/Pedal for the fist time after ignition ON cycle - it will stay on thereafter until ignition is turned OFF (unless bulb contact is intermittent and bulb is in fact good). Of course the remaining low wattage filament cannot emulate a high intensity brake light (so you have no brake light signal visible from rear).

- CAUSE CASE 2) One of the brake switches (pedal/lever) does not make the opening circuit it should do when lever/pedal is activated.

Background info: on these Integral-Abs models, the brake switches have reverse logic compare to most brand (and also compare to older BMW). At rest, these switches have continuity and in pressing the lever/pedal, the circuit is opened (no continuity). With such design, after ignition ON, the ABS modulator can check if both brake switches have continuity (no wire cut or switches disconnected) - the manual explicitly tell you to leave you hands OFF the brake during ignition ON cycle (wait about 5 seconds for the internal ABS self check to finish). If parked on an incline, leave it in 1st gear during the 5 secs self-check , then use the brakes as needed)

Besides the internal self-check of the brake switches, the Integral-ABS system also monitors the pressure cause by lever / pedal application using hydraulic internal pressure sensors located inside the ABS modulator. If pressure is detected (up to a certain threshold) without any previous brake switches signal, it will trigger the "general warning" steady (only when the brake pedal / lever is applied depending on the defective switches).


CONCLUSION: check / inspect / change the bulb for a std 21/5 watts bulb (although just a bit more wattage the 1157 is more common in auto-parts and will not cause any issues)

Pay attention to when the "general warning" shows up the 1st time - immediately after igniton ON ..or.. later when brakes are applied. Apply front and rear separately to isolate problem. WATCH for a non functioning brake light signal visually to confirm a bulb problem (covers 1 case only).

Brake switches: assuming the 1st occurence of "general warning" is always right after Rear Brake application, check carefully as this one is more subject to damage by a low-speed drop AND also debris. The bolt of the pedal may not make proper constant contact with the metal tab. Check this YouTube link for my cruise-control troubleshooting video starting at position 08:28 (min:sec) to better listen and see how it should behave (put your volume up):
https://www.youtube.com/embed/2ov3-jdII6A?start=508

FINALLY... If all these facts cannot help you pinpoint the cause, you will need an ABS module fault code readout using dealer's computer OR a GS911.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Last edited by sailor; Jun 6th, 2019 at 7:33 pm.
sailor is offline  
post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 2019, 10:23 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stillwater, MN, USA
Posts: 70
Thanks for the thoughtful input, Sailor. I considered some of the things you suggested and found nothing amiss. However, I did install an LED tail/brake light with an 'appropriate' resistor some time ago and went along happily with no warning lights for some time. Nonetheless, I recently replaced that combination for unrelated reasons and reinstalled an 1157 bulb. It will be interesting to see if the intermittent light issue is resolved.
To me, the weird part was that the warning light problem was intermittent. When I've had problems in the past with failed bulbs, etc., the light was always on until the problem was fixed.
Thanks again.
lljanssen is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old Jun 7th, 2019, 5:27 am
Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
Posts: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljanssen View Post
Thanks for the thoughtful input, Sailor. I considered some of the things you suggested and found nothing amiss. However, I did install an LED tail/brake light with an 'appropriate' resistor some time ago and went along happily with no warning lights for some time. Nonetheless, I recently replaced that combination for unrelated reasons and reinstalled an 1157 bulb. It will be interesting to see if the intermittent light issue is resolved.
To me, the weird part was that the warning light problem was intermittent. When I've had problems in the past with failed bulbs, etc., the light was always on until the problem was fixed.
Thanks again.
I hear you... HOWEVER many electrical issues are not Black-or-White. Intermittent problems are difficult to track if you only think of the most simple / basic stuff - of course you start with simple stuff and then you go beyond. You need to think "outside the box" with all data / knowledge of each system - something you have missed that looks "kind of normal" until you test / check / look closer.

In 45 years working on many motorcycles, I have seen intermittent fuses that looked good visually but had a minor structural crack. Same story for bulbs and spark-plugs, wire connections...

In these K1200RS / K1200GT and a few boxer models of the same era, the socket for the tail-light bulb is far from a perfect design. With age or hand manipulations, It can cause a bad contact on the side of the bulb (the ground part) and also on the tip contacts (positive for night or brake light).

Also, do not neglect the large side connector on the sub-frame rail under seat. This could be damaged, corroded or have a bad contact (see attached image).

As I have posted earlier, the most important hint will be: if "general warning" goes on only after brake application. This will potentially lead to either brake switches as potential cause. An ABS-modulator fault readout would also make troubleshooting simpler as all history of fault codes remain in memory from the past (until battery is disconnected or a "clear fault code command" is executed).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	K1200RS (2002-2005) Rear_Brake_Ligth_Large-connector on frame (with Notes).jpg
Views:	10
Size:	228.0 KB
ID:	24593  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
sailor is offline  
post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old Jun 8th, 2019, 10:15 am
Veteran
 
H96669's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Burton, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 1,616
I fixed a K1200RS with exactly the same problem a couple years ago. General warning light randomly coming on and resetting with ignition Off then On.New bulb!
sailor likes this.

Benelli 50cc at 14
Yamaha RD 200 at 16
Yamaha RD 350 at 17
Honda CB 750 F at 18
Honda V45 Sabre at 24
BMW K100RS at 27
BMW R100GS at 34
BMW K1200RS at 53
H96669 is online now  
post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old Jul 1st, 2019, 9:33 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stillwater, MN, USA
Posts: 70
Resolution FWIW

Quote:
Originally Posted by lljanssen View Post
Thanks for the thoughtful input, Sailor. I considered some of the things you suggested and found nothing amiss. However, I did install an LED tail/brake light with an 'appropriate' resistor some time ago and went along happily with no warning lights for some time. Nonetheless, I recently replaced that combination for unrelated reasons and reinstalled an 1157 bulb. It will be interesting to see if the intermittent light issue is resolved.
To me, the weird part was that the warning light problem was intermittent. When I've had problems in the past with failed bulbs, etc., the light was always on until the problem was fixed.
Thanks again.
Apparently the stock bulb did the trick. The warning light came on the first time I started after re-installing it, reset it by shutting the bike down. Many starts later, it hasn't happened since. Go figure.
lljanssen is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome