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Custom project, no spark

7K views 37 replies 3 participants last post by  Kleinelars1. 
#1 ·
Hello,

I just joined this forum after reeding several topics in the past days as I have a '99 K1200rs. Only thing is; I got the bike as a not finished bobber/custom project. There is another tank on it with as far as i can tell the original fuel pump.
All wiring was loosend and ABS unit removed (cut away). When I got it it even wouldn't crank but got that solved.

Next step is to get a spark, but this seems to be some sort of difficult as I have a manual, but no electrical drawing to sort out the electrics. Currently it looks like tere is a condition missing in order to get the spark. As the bike was still in running condition before PO started dismanteling the bike I'm excluding the Coil as source of the problem for now. Focussing on the fact that the ABS was removed, fuel tank swapped and the wire loom was pulled apart.

I hope someone can help me, especially with the following questions;
1 Is there a condition for getting a spark in the ABS or fuelpump system?
2 Bike not on jiffy but main stand, is that a issue for sparking?
3 How can I bypass the fueltank for now? I just want to see the spark for now as i am taking it step by step, preferably without putting the fueltank on it.
4 Am I overlooking a condition?

Thanks in advance.
Lars (Netherlands)
 
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#2 ·
Could be the sidestand switch interlock.I am trying to remember if sidestand switch also cuts the ignition?It certainly does cut the fuel pump.

Or the gear indicator switch if that has been hacked into?That is also part of the interlock and that one definitely shuts the ignition/spark.OEM setup is that with bike in gear on centerstand with sidestand up,the pump will still prime when turning on the ignition but "spark" is disabled until one pulls the clutch or put transmission in neutral.

Fuel pump should run briefly and prime the system with ignition On.Is that happening?

You'll need the Clymer manual if just for the electrical diagrams.There is also a sidestand switch test procedure in the Clymer.And a Hall sensor test etc....etc!
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the help! I will definitely check this tonight;-)
I do have a manual but it is a BMW manual, probably not the Clymer you meant. Can I get it on the web somewhere?

Priming of the pump is bit difficult, pump is installed in other "chopper style" fueltank, but looks like it is not "fueltight " (is that the correct word??;-)) yet. Is there a workaround to check this?
Pump has 1 power connector right? Or is the level switch also connected?

Thanks in advance!
 
#4 · (Edited)
OK , you said K1200RS (1999) modified custom project... Troubleshooting AT A DISTANCE something than has been modified OR hacked into is not an easy task ;-)
Given these limitations, let me try:

(1) Of course it is easier to troubleshoot with fuel pump noise... However even if the pump OR tank is not connected, you can check for this 2 seconds priming sequence (after ignition is turned ON) using a simple DC Voltmeter. On right side, where the lower original tank was, there is a 2 pins BLACK Plastic connector (confirm 1 wire is Green/White (this is +) and the other is Brown (-). See 1st attached picture.

Install your Voltmeter ahead of igniton senquence, then watch display for 12 to 13 volts (Battery voltage) for 2 seconds just after you turn igntion ON. After this Voltage drops to Zero UNLESS engine is cranked over (or started).

(2) Another item to check: if the main harness OR the warnings on dash have not been messed with during the conversion, after ignition ON you should see the RED engine temp warning on dash (this stay on until engine is started). If this RED warning is not ON, then the starter OR EFI Computer are off-line. This means one OR multiple interlocks are active (either side-stand, Neutral, Kill-switch, Motronic EFI fuse....). See attached 2nd picture.

When any of the starter satefy interlocks are active, you may still be able to operate the Starter (with clutch lever pulled) but the EFI computer will NOT give spark signal - neither will it operate the injectors or fuel-pump.


(3) Assuming the main harness has not been too much damaged / modified , you will also find a 2 pins WHITE plastic connector near top of fuel tank (1 wire is Yellow/Violet and the other is Brown). This normally connects to fuel level sensor (float) but it is NOT critical for function of EFI Computer or the engine electronics. You can still run the engine without this plugged.


P.S.: CLYMER manual for k1200RS / K1200LT is available directly from AMAZON in most countries (CLYMER part number is M501 with various suffix depending on revision / updated version). It is more complete than the BMW factory service manual with a lot more photos and details.

The electrical diagrams of CLYMER are not perfect (about 95% OK) but certainly better than the BMW shop manual where there is none (the Germans think you do not need this in a Service manual - amazing !). However you can also buy a CD with a Windows based software from your BMW dealer to get all electrical diagrams from 1993-2008 models for about $US$ 50 This is BMW part number: 01797720399 and all diagrams are one same CD.
 

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#10 ·
Did some searching, asked a friend to have a second look but just can't find any 3 pin connector with a W/B/R colored wire.
Do you happen to know where these wires lead to, so I can jump them at the ECU or at a relay or so?

Yes, I want to install a side-stand switch again later, as soon or later I will eventually forget it somehow...with all risks involved. But for now stll aiming for that first spark;-)
 
#11 ·
I doubt this connector has been removed as it pulls out from the main harness - it is attached along the left side black-tube sub-frame with a bunch of other short wires sections for many other sensors (Neutral, Engine-coolant , Side-stand and Oxygen sensor). Unless they were stupid enough to cut this completely from the main harness running along that frame tube...

IF YOU CANNOT FIND THIS male side-stand connector (from main harness side), then your remaining option is to go into Electronic Relays junction box under fuel tank (on right side). As shown in attached diagram, in top section of this junction box, you will find all Relays.

The number 3 relay in diagram is for EFI Computer (Motronic). Under this Relay, there is a 4 wires connector: the pin number 5 of this connector should have a Brown+White wire ( this is in fact connected to Pin 85 of Relay - remove Relay to check underside). What the side-stand does is to furnish the ground signal thru this wire (when side-stand is UP) so that Motronic can be activated / powered by this Relay When this happens, you should see the RED engine temp warning on dash after ignition ON - of course this is assuming all rest of wiring is correct.

What you can do as a test to simulate stand being ALWAYS UP, is to connect the pin 5 under this Relay (Brown+White wire) to a ground point. There is such ground point (brown wire) at the top right of the Relay junction box (see 2nd picture). Do this ground wire connection ONLY with Ignition OFF and Battery disconnected. After all wiring work is done, then you can connect battery and test igintion ON. This precaution is in case you touch wrong wire during work - you can make a bad short or damage EFI computer. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN, work carefully ;-)
 

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#21 ·
I do have a new question. Will call it series 4;-)

(4A) I still have the Neutral switch only working with the connector jumped between pin 1 and 5. As soon as I remove the jumper and connect both parts of the connectors back together I notice that the Neutral light is no longer ON. I prefer to have the Neutral light working again for safety purpose. Do you have any suggestions?
 
#22 · (Edited)
When you say: "...and connect both parts of the connectors back together I notice that the Neutral light is no longer ON." Do you mean the 6 pins neutral switch Black connector under seat (on left hand sub-frame tube)?

If so, then you need to find why this "Neutral / In-gear position" switch assembly (behind transmission) is not responding. So you have either or many of these issues:

1) maybe someone worked on a clutch / transmission job and damaged the switch assembly (on removal or installation). When you will receive CLYMER repair manual you will see better where it is located (in Chapter 9 as "Gear Indicator switch replacement"). Not easy to remove or replace without removal of muffler and/or swing-arm as everything is very tight behind transmission.

2) maybe one connector pin on the male side of the connector is damaged (toward switch).

3) maybe the female contacts (on the harness side) are dirty or loose and make bad contact with male side.

4) maybe the internals of switch are dirty or defective. It is a series of contacts inside for Neutral signal and 3 more contacts to signal various gear position 1 to 6. With Ignition OFF, using an OhmMeter, test for continuity between pin 1 and 5 on the male side of the connector. With bike on center stand, you can rotate wheel by hand and change gear from 1 to neutral or 2 to neutral and see if the switch side is responding to change in continuity.

See attached photo of male side of connector (switch side toward transmission)...

ADDED OPTIONAL TESTS:
Of course, you can also test for continuity between Pin 1 (common ground) and 2 , 3 or 4, however for Neutral signal we are mainly concerned about 1 and 5 together. The other combo of pins are to show proper number of gear engaged on dash. For example, when 1st gear is engaged, continuity should exist between 1-2 and 1-3 BUT NOT between 1-4
 

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#25 · (Edited)
This is the ONLY "loose" connector that you do NOT have to worry about - the story is this:
For K1200RS/K1200LT sold in USA market, BMW had to implement a "Tank breather valve" (also called vapor venting system for fuel tank). The system is not installed in other markets (Europe , Canada...) so there is a missing small pulse-valve normally attached on left side just above fuel-injection rail.

Because the Pulse-valve is missing (outside of USA market), this connector is loose. From factory, it is normally attached to fuel rail with a zip tie - no harm done with rain as the Motronic just sends signal at intervalls BUT does NOT care to read anything from it.

WARNING: During maintenance, be carefull if unplugging the 4 fuel injectors wires (all 4 have same color wires with one wire being Yellow). The issue is this loose connector will fit on injectors too - many have made this mistake when plugging back the injectors - one cylinder will not run very well if using this loose connector ;-)

P.S.: there is also another similar shape 2 pins connector on left side that goes into the air-temp-sensor in Air filter box. This one has 2 Brown wire (Brown+Yellow , Brown+Blue) and looks the same a the one for Injectors but with a longer wire. Because you said earlier your Air-box was modified , you may find this loose connector somewhere.
 
#32 ·
Hi John and all other readers;-)

Well, finally back at home last wednesday after a couple of days in Germany for work.
The wiring starts to come together. Just before I left I finished the rear light and flasher wiring. Had them already working but still needed to connect them properly incl the resistors and run the wiring, so finished that last night.

Tonight I hope to sort out the headlight wiring (aftermarket), speedo(aftermarket) and rpm gauge (original).

I still have 2 issue's
1) RPM guage
For the RPM gauge I still have some unclearity, as it has 3 wires come out of it for 3 inches where they are cut, but I do not know where to connect them to:
Green/black
Brown
Black

On the motor itself I have the same three wires, but also a Purple/white cable, but I am not sure if that one is for the RPM gauge or the motor temperature gauge on the instrument panel.

2) Speedo gauge aftermarket
This new meter is mounted inside the headlight and contains the following wires:
Blac 2X
Orange
Green
Red
White and black with connector to wheel magnet.

I think the original cables where:
yellow
Brown/red
Blue/green
brown
Green/black

So I hope you can assist in pointing out which wires from the original cable loom I equire, or what purpose the have.

Thanks in advance!
 
#33 · (Edited)
Hi John and all other readers;-)

Well, finally back at home last wednesday after a couple of days in Germany for work.
The wiring starts to come together. Just before I left I finished the rear light and flasher wiring. Had them already working but still needed to connect them properly incl the resistors and run the wiring, so finished that last night.

I still have 2 issue's
1) RPM guage
For the RPM gauge I still have some unclearity, as it has 3 wires come out of it for 3 inches where they are cut, but I do not know where to connect them to:
Green/black
Brown
Black

On the motor itself I have the same three wires, but also a Purple/white cable, but I am not sure if that one is for the RPM gauge or the motor temperature gauge on the instrument panel.

2) Speedo gauge aftermarket
This new meter is mounted inside the headlight and contains the following wires:
Blac 2X
Orange
Green
Red
White and black with connector to wheel magnet.
...
.....

Thanks in advance!

Keep in mind you are in unknown territory as very few have ever installed custom instruments on these K1200RS – although I have seen a few on older k100 / k75 converted into Café-Racer.

As I have the factory BMW electrical diagram on CD, I can give you a few hints. I will also include a diagram with wires position behind the original instrument cluster. This will give you a better idea where to find your wires in front harness.

For the SPEEDO:
1) Power coming from fuse-box is on a GREEN+BLACK wire. This is item 3 on diagram (right side).

2) There is a single color YELLOW wire for the speed signal that comes from the speed sensor located on top of the rear-drive (this is for 1st generation K1200RS like yours). On later K1200RS models (2002+ for USA) this signal would come from ABS module. This is item 7 on diagram.

3) of course there is also a ground BROWN wire to complete the circuit (from same speed sensor on rear-drive). This is item 5.

4) There is also a BLUE+GREEN wire that is used to send back speedo signal to the “smart” self-cancelling Flasher Relay (located with other relays).


FOR the RPM (tachometer):
- Power coming from fuse-box is on a GREEN+BLACK wire. This is item 3 on diagram (left side).

- There is a single color BLACK wire for the RPM signal that comes from the Motronic EFI unit (origin is pin 35 on Motronic connector). This is item 2 on diagram. Note that the same pin 35 also sends a wire to the Coil pack.

- of course there is also a ground BROWN wire to complete the circuit . This is item 1 on diagram.
 

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#36 ·
Small update on the speedometer sensor:
I disconnected the connector of the speedometer sensor (Brown/yellow wire) and connected my Multimeter in order to meet continuity from a point as close as possible to the sensor itself.
Nothin happens, only when I lift the sensor up just a little (2mm) rapidly in order to remove it my multimeter beeps. But when spinning the rear-wheel I get no beep.
So only when changing the speedometer sensor rapidly and repeating it in vertical direction, I get a "beep".

Again tested the speedosensor by stroking it past a piece of metal and it directly beeps.
so yes it is working, but not when installed.

Driving me nuts;-) I can't be the oil filmp on the rotating part inside the cardan....right...?
Hope you have some suggestions.
 
#37 ·
Currently in garage I have only a more recent K1200RS (2002) with integral-ABS. On these models the sensor are different as the speedo takes signal from the ABS wheel speed sensor (after conversion from ABS module). So I cannot take an exact reading of AC-voltage or resistance to compare with yours being 1st generation.

1) BMW does not give any specs for testing, BUT In general these speed sensor (on top of rear drive) will generate a small AC-voltage values that increases as you turn the wheel faster - something between 0.5 and 2 AC volts. So disconnect the sensor (under seat usually) and measure AC volts generated when you turn the wheel.

2) NEXT TEST is to measure resistance between the 2 wires when disconnected: again there is no specs from BMW but it should be roughly between 200 and 1000 Ohms. Any extreme OHMS reading is suspicious - in particular when twisting or moving the wires from end to end as you may have damaged wiring inside the black covering.

3) Did you check the continuity from harness side (under seat where the speed sensor is connected) toward the front harness near instrument for the YELLOW wire ?

4) FINALLY, another potential problem in these 1st generation K1200RS having ABS2 is the dented wheel inside the rear drive - not very common but still possible this would be your problem. You will see better if you drain the rear drive oil AND shine a flashlight thru the hole where the sensor is attached.

The problem that happens sometimes is the dented ring gear becomes detached or spins freely (see picture). You should be able to insert a long thin screwdriver to confirm that the dented ring gear is spinning with wheel AND that is is well attached AND that it is aligned with hole so that sensor comes down at correct position.
 

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