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post #1 of 87 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 2007, 2:51 pm Thread Starter
 
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High Idle: My Observations

I have been monitoring and engaging in these high idle threads at four different sites and want to share my insights. Many of us cross post on several sites.

__________________________________________________ __________ _____________________________

First some definitions:

High Idle Syndrome or Idle Hang:
The engine idles between approximately 1800 rpm to 3000 rpm and holds there 5 to 10 seconds after the throttle is closed. Clutched or declutched. It acts like a pinched throttle cable. It usually will idle back to 1000 after a while but it will run rough. Just barely blipping the throttle causes the engine to rev back up to 1800 to 3000 again and hang there again. This can also happen on upshifts and down shifts or steady speeds. In some cases the engine might rev up on its own!

Bucking Bronco Syndrome (BBS):
Sudden on off throttle jerkiness and speeds from 0 to 50 mph. This usually accompanies High Idle.

Stalling:
Engine stops running. Another drivability problem, may be related to the same systems causing High Idle.

Very Sensitive Throttle:
Jerking at low speeds low load conditions; city streets ,construction zones, school zones, or just trying to creep along in slow traffic. Not the same as BBS but similar. Common with 06 GT's.

__________________________________________________ __________ ___________________________________


After sifting through hundreds of posts on four different forums I have come up with the following general observations.


*I can identify at least 45 cases of High Idle Syndrome starting back in September of 2006.

*The problem is World Wide!!!!

*As of today I can not find any cases High Idle with the Second Generation 07 K1200GT. ECU = BMS-KP !!!!!!!!

*First Gen. 07 GT's ECU = BMS-K seem to have the most cases. Probably due to the fact that more of them were built.

*Many first Gen 07's. run perfectly.

*Most 06 GT's have the Very Sensitive Throttle and most were cured with a change in software to version 7 or 7.1. however they still can have the High Idle Syndrome before or after the upgrades.

*High Idle occurs after the engine is warmed up. High Idle can occur at ANY outside air temps.

*Mileage is not a factor. It can happen to a new bike or it might not happen for thousands of miles. It can be chronic or it may go thousands of miles between episodes ( Paroxysmal High Idle Syndrome).

*Cruise Control is not a factor. Some GT's without cruise control have High Idle Syndrome.

*High Idle is not isolated to Gt's. A few K1200S's and R's suffer from High Idle Syndrome.

__________________________________________________ __________ ________________________________________

The Fixes ?????

1. Airboxs along with the Idle Control Valves (ICV) have been replaced with some success. But more often than not they are accompanied with a soft ware upgrade and things stay the same or get worse!
Warped air boxes are blamed most of the time for these problems. The high idle sometimes comes back after time.
Airboxes are on back order!

******Apparently BMW is close to introducing a THIRD Airbox and a software version 9.2 to go with it. The Second Gen 07 might be out of production for now!*****

2. A Software upgrade alone will not fix it. Don't let your dealer load 9.1 into a GT unless the Air Box and ICV are also replaced.

3. Turning off the engine then turning it back on may make the High Idle go away for a while.

4. Doing a TPS reset ( disconnection of battery for a period of time then hooking it back up and twisting the throttle twice ) may cure it for a while.

5. Adjusting the throttle cables may seem to give relief but is not the cure. Also true for Very Sensitive Throttle.

6. The few who have had the ECU upgraded to BMS-KP have had excellent results and report more power! Some of these folks are doing this upgrade out of their own pocket. Thanks for your input to these forums! It will work on 06 GT's as well. This is promising!

7. One very astute mechanic in England noticed a poorly machined surface on the ICV. He was able to fettle it and apparently fix the High Idle on that bike. We don't have any Fettler's here in the USA, They retired after the industrial revolution.

8. BMW has replaced at least one GT because of High Idle. Some posters have traded their GT's for newer models.

__________________________________________________ __________ _______________________________________

Conclusions !!!!!

I think BMW knows they have a problem but won't admit to it but looking at the number of software upgrades since the introduction of the 05 K1200S should tell us something is up.
I believe the real fix is still in the works.

Disclaimer:
I do not know how many GT's have been produced to date nor do I know what percentage of those have High Idle Syndrome. Only BMW knows for sure.
Not all owners report good or bad experiences to a forum.
These are MY observations only.

Thanks for all of you who have posted whether good or bad.

Any comments or corrections are WELCOME.

Got to ask Dr. Greg if you would recommend a pacemaker to one of your patients if the device were manufactured by BMW or Bosch?

Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
06 K1200GT
93 K1100RS
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post #2 of 87 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 2007, 8:06 pm
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Norris,

Great job! Glad somebody took the initiative and put in the substantial effort to do this. Thank you!!

Having followed all the threads on two of the sites, I would agree that your synopsis is spot-on. I can't think of anything you've missed.

Chris
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post #3 of 87 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 2007, 10:43 pm
 
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Excellent post. I experienced the stalls for the second time today after a day of High idle. This is really starting to annoy me.

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post #4 of 87 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 2007, 10:52 pm
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Very good summary although I am not sure I agree with not loading 9.1. My dealer loaded 9.1 with no other changes and the bike went from almost unridable when the high idle started to annoying only. Definitely better than before but not fixed, see my posts in High Idle BBS in Australia. I can at least keep riding whereas with the old software it was positively dangerous.

Let's hope BMW come up with a proper fix and do a recall to fix them all.

Bob

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post #5 of 87 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 2007, 11:06 pm Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobD
Let's hope BMW come up with a proper fix and do a recall to fix them all.
Amen!

Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
93 K1100RS
06 K1200GT
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post #6 of 87 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 2007, 11:14 pm
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I still don't buy the airbox warpage thing. If this is true, then how come it comes and goes? Plastic doesn't go that funky and warp back into a perfect shape for a leakage problem to reseal itself.

Not too sure on the computer change-out either. Software problems are usually repeatable. Hardware and mechanical less so. Even air in the water jacket could throw off the water sensor for a bit, or an injector hang which would fool the O2 sensor.

Dunno.
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post #7 of 87 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 2007, 6:58 am Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMack
I still don't buy the airbox warpage thing. If this is true, then how come it comes and goes? Plastic doesn't go that funky and warp back into a perfect shape for a leakage problem to reseal itself.

Not too sure on the computer change-out either. Software problems are usually repeatable. Hardware and mechanical less so. Even air in the water jacket could throw off the water sensor for a bit, or an injector hang which would fool the O2 sensor.

Dunno.
A agree with you. Also the ICV could hang. I have had 36 years of EFI and I have had two cases of Idle Control Valves going bad.

Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
93 K1100RS
06 K1200RS
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post #8 of 87 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 2007, 8:16 am
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I'm always curious about software updates as fixes. Over the years there have been many on different BMW models and as has been posted, on their own they give mixed results. It is is becoming extremely plausible in a modern computer literate society to assume everything is better with a software upgrade and many will believe it, which is what the marketing people want when they sell new bikes. They couldn't say, "Yes there's been a problem and we can't fix it yet" when you have money in your hands. They would rather buy more time on the warranty, let some go that don't notice, perhaps bring out a new model and bury the old one.

I wonder if the underlying causes of so many complaints are either not fully understood by BMW or they understand and the reasons are more expensive to get fixed than we realise. Going for software changes first is the cheapest and easiest option.



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post #9 of 87 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 2007, 9:59 am
 
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This thread should be made a "sticky." Best summary of observations on High-Idle I have seen.
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post #10 of 87 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 2007, 10:21 am
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Nice job on the post Cooper, nice to have all this info in one place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
I'm always curious about software updates as fixes. Over the years there have been many on different BMW models and as has been posted, on their own they give mixed results. It is is becoming extremely plausible in a modern computer literate society to assume everything is better with a software upgrade and many will believe it, which is what the marketing people want when they sell new bikes.
Couldn't agree more. I'm very skeptical of a "software fix" on just about anything mechanical like our bikes. On computers or electronics yes. But it's just too easy to say an upgrade will fix everything nowadays. My bike came with 9.0 and they took it to 9.1 at the first service. I don't think there was any difference at all other than the placebo effect of being told that it had new software.

'07 GT Sold- 2012 GSA Triple Black - Farkles O'Plenty!

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