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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old Feb 4th, 2009, 9:00 pm Thread Starter
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Consumer Satisfaction

BMW has unwittingly created cottage industries which do nothing but address our complaints. If they would just log onto these sites from time to time they could use our posts as "hints" on how to improve their product, and consumer satisfaction.

Items I would like to see BMW address
virtually useless power outlet, let 15AMPS Flow, and leave it active bike running or not
The Gel Battery sucks, get rid of it. Start with the odyssey we all eventually buy
The stiletto style side stand what's that all about
Correct the problem which allows the side case to flop open scratching the hell out of it
The seats very personal item offer options other than a lower seat
Tires, let the consumer decide, and install at the dealership
This is my pet peeve list anyone care to add theirs

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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old Feb 4th, 2009, 10:40 pm
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So, this would be your first Beemer then?

On the one hand, BMW does monitor sites like ours, and does sometimes make changes based on consumer feedback. The original LT was quite tall and heavy and hard to handle at slow speeds (but not for those 6'+ Germans, of course). In comparison, the Wing had better lights, more torque, a lower seat height, and was easier to maneuver at parking lot speeds. So in '05, the LT got a second headlight and an HID option, a power increase, a lower seat, modified rake and trail for easier low-speed handling, and an electro-hydraulic center stand. All this did help sell more LTs, which is the whole point, after all.

On the other hand, the German engineers know what is best for us and they will just do what they think is right regardless of what the customer may want or not want (witness the power brakes that were taking over all BMW's a couple of years ago).

As for your items:

* virtually useless power outlet, let 15AMPS Flow, and leave it active bike running or not - They're moving to CanBus control which simplifies the wiring and diagnostics, and reduces cost to build and to maintain. Plus their electric vests only draw 5 amps, so it all works fine. And leaving it powered up full time means people will just let the battery die, which isn't good for the CanBus system, so they can't allow that. But they do offer an accessory outlet kit if you really want one.

* The Gel Battery sucks, get rid of it. Start with the odyssey we all eventually buy - Not all of us. Some folks hardly ride enough to wear out the factory battery. Actually, I think this has more to do with bulk supplier purchases than anything else.

* The stiletto style side stand what's that all about - OK, you got me here. Minimum footprint for maximum lean angle? Actually, BMW has also modified side stands over the years based on customer complaints, but it's usually a length issue.

* Correct the problem which allows the side case to flop open scratching the hell out of it - There's no problem here. Nope, no way. It must be your fault.

* The seats very personal item offer options other than a lower seat - Way too many possibilities here to try and fit everyone. So they go with a nice soft, gushy seat that feels great for 5 minutes in the showroom, but not so great for 5 hours on the road. But that helps sell bikes, as does offering a no-charge low seat option. Besides, we all know that bike seats are designed for purely aesthetic reasons anyway.

* Tires, let the consumer decide, and install at the dealership - Again, bulk supplier prices have a lot to say about this, as does their rigorous tire certification process. And who ever heard of a bike shipping without tires, to be installed at the dealer's or customer's discretion? Just too complicated. Besides, if you don't like the factory tires then just go riding until you wear them out, then get the ones you want. My factory rear Z6 (which I hated) lasted 6 weeks, and the front was gone another 6 weeks after that. I've just worn out my 15th rear and 10th front, so the factory fit tires are merely a distant memory.

Of course, Your Mileage May Vary.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles and counting...
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 60K miles miles and counting...
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#145, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032

All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...

Last edited by Meese; Feb 4th, 2009 at 10:52 pm.
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old Feb 4th, 2009, 10:50 pm
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Oh, but if I did have to add one thing to my wish list it would be to bring back that legendary BMW reliability that they've lost. I can deal with seats, side stands, tires, wiring accessories, etc., but there's nothing that I can do when my final drive starts puking oil all down the back wheel. For the second time on the GT, and fourth over all my Beemers.

Fix that, and I'll buy another BMW. Don't fix it, and I'll be looking elsewhere.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles and counting...
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 60K miles miles and counting...
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#145, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032

All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 2009, 6:26 am Thread Starter
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Hey Mr.Super Moderator your not drinking the Koolaid, your the guy mixing it. No this is not my first BMW, but my RT didn't have nearly as many documented issues. For the most part I left reliability out of the post, but since you brought it up, I find it hard to believe that in testing their product BMW is not able to identify the problems we discuss here. This pisses me off, because that means they knew for example of the BBS, and final drive problems, and shipped anyway. I mean, do they test ride their own product? How could they miss these problems? Tell the German engineers to take their heads out of their asses.

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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 2009, 7:54 am
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Originally Posted by 2008-K1200GT
1. Virtually useless power outlet, let 15AMPS Flow, and leave it active bike running or not
2. The Gel Battery sucks, get rid of it. Start with the odyssey we all eventually buy
3. The stiletto style side stand what's that all about
1. Yep. That 5 amp socket is a joke. Their first few funky chargers wouldn't work well with the Can-Bus either. Even with Widder's BMW vest and gloves, it would cycle on and off and never really get hot. Even dealers thought it was their dumbest idea.

2. My gel gave up to the slow/hesitant cranking after one year. Odyssey has cranked it like it should since then.

3. That spike was nearly my first tip-over. Punched right through some thin asphalt and was resting against a tree. I managed to completely knock it down several times since for ~$4000 (which points to some need for better fairing protection rather than dominoing though multiple expensive parts, imo).

Mine? Final drive with ceramic ball bearings please since the Chinese have some years to go before they learn how to get past their flaky-platy bearings.

Oh, get rid of Otto the Gorilla at BMW who likes to cinch tie-downs to the point they cut through the wiring.


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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 2009, 10:08 am
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Oooo I can see it now. This thread has all the makings of a fine "winter time doldrums bitch fest". !!

So let me add to the list with some warm thoughts. A little more air directed towards my summer time roasting right foot and calve would be great.

And while they're at it....how about a full figured blond Bavarian chick to clean, polish and wax......the bike.

'07 GT Sold- 2012 GSA Triple Black - Farkles O'Plenty!

I think I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe....but I am NOT a Dental Floss Tycoon!
What's with this STUPID Cosmic Door?! ....Going Somewhere?!....Going Somewhere?!


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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 2009, 11:12 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_W
.

And while they're at it....how about a full figured blond Bavarian chick to clean, polish and wax......the bike.
Outstanding suggestion.

throw in a stein or two of good German beer to drink while
watching her work and you justify the premium prices paid
for BMW's.

tim-----still on the right side of the frostline

you can't stop the signal
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 2009, 5:54 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2008-K1200GT
Hey Mr.Super Moderator your not drinking the Koolaid, your the guy mixing it. No this is not my first BMW, but my RT didn't have nearly as many documented issues. For the most part I left reliability out of the post, but since you brought it up, I find it hard to believe that in testing their product BMW is not able to identify the problems we discuss here. This pisses me off, because that means they knew for example of the BBS, and final drive problems, and shipped anyway. I mean, do they test ride their own product? How could they miss these problems? Tell the German engineers to take their heads out of their asses.
Why did you buy it? Why are you keeping it?
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 2009, 6:21 pm Thread Starter
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I bought the bike because even with it's shortcomings I felt it was the best sport tourer. I narrowed it down to the GT or an FJR. The FJR lost out mainly because it's nearly impossible to get a test ride, and I had an RT I was happy with. That being said just because I bought the bike doesn't mean I can't evaluate it, and suggest ways to make improvements. None of the issues I described are deal breakers. The exception may be the FD since it has stranded riders on the rode, which is an experience I'm hoping to avoid. I love the bike, and can't wait for all this snow to melt. One thing that does piss me off is after visiting several different sites I have concluded that BMW shipped the bikes with known issues, and decided to work the bugs out along the way. As for keeping the bike we will see, if it lets me down, and gives me that unreliable feeling it's gone.

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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old Feb 5th, 2009, 8:56 pm
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virtually useless power outlet, let 15AMPS Flow, and leave it active bike running or not

I never use it. If it were a big deal i would hard wire the existing one. On my old K75 I did use it occasionally for setting up camp when I rode too late, I had a small spotlight I used for shining the campsite. So I can see on case right there where some might use it with the bike off. That and you could then use a normal trickle charger with a euro plug-in adapter.

The Gel Battery sucks, get rid of it. Start with the odyssey we all eventually buy
Still on stock battery

The stiletto style side stand what's that all about
As an old K Bike guy I almost always use the center stand exclusively. Just hope THAT doesn't twist and break like I've seen pics of.

Correct the problem which allows the side case to flop open scratching the hell out of it
Ditto on the old K bike guy statement, the old integral case had the strap attaching the two halves together, which attached on each end with a press on snap. They never stayed attached either, so am used to holding the lid where I want it with my body. At least the GT has an actual HINGE instead of a couple pieces of plastic which flex and sort of imitate a hinge.

The seats very personal item offer options other than a lower seat
I'm happy with the seat. Some like it, others don't, I don't think they'll ever have a seat on a bike that pleases everyone. Don't these aftermarket seat makers sell seats for about any mass produced bike? I don't think the problem is unique to BMW.

Tires, let the consumer decide, and install at the dealership
That won't work, come on.

This is my pet peeve list anyone care to add theirs
Well, I wish that they could make it so you could "clear" the warning triangle on the OBC. The cars (BMWs) in the 80s had that warning center, kind of up on the headliner. Had various things, bulb out, low washer solvent, etc. When you would get a malfunction warning up there, a triangle like that in the speedo area would flash. You pushed a button on the warning center, and the triangle stopped flashing. And you had to do that every time the car was restarted, but it's better than the GT where it's always flashing at you if there is a problem. Like "OK, OK, acknowledged I am low on fuel. Whatever......". And the bulb or LED that lights up the pad warning, that thing is about to go on a short flight to the closest trashcan. Here I was all excited about finding out how to dim the instrument cluster (I am sensitive to that riding in the dark), now I have a Christmas tree up on the indicator light area. I do like the switches on my 07, but some subtle lighting, esp on the right side, would be nice. Oh and the glovebox, I still haven't found a use for that thing yet. My cold weather gloves don't fit in there very well. AND a better tool kit. I think that's it, Santa.
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