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Better than a K13

5K views 29 replies 20 participants last post by  sto04045 
#1 ·
Greetings,
Please do not misunderstand me , to me the gt is the ultimate bike. But I'm just wondering: can better be found ?
I'm not going to try the contour, the fjr or the pan (st) but is there room to make a substantially better sport touring bike? What would that take?
I would not know, do you have any ideas ?
I thought: let's trow the question in the group and see what reaction it spins
A.
 
#2 ·
Easy. Less weight (always a good thing), fix the fueling properly, and give us a reliable final drive. OK, I know the last two are really fixes for existing problems rather than improvements, but seriously, why are we still putting up with stalling and bearing failures after 5 years?

Other than that, it's a personal preference sort of thing. Better seat, better windscreen, more adjustable ergonomics, and perhaps an iPod input, although all of those can be solved in the aftermarket.

My GT was almost perfect over 20K miles in just about 5 weeks (including my aftermarket ergonomic mods), except I still had some fueling/stumbling issues and I was paranoid enough about a final drive failure that I actually carried a spare drive in my saddlebag. That in itself is just sad.

Otherwise the bike was awesome in all weather and all road conditions. If only I could learn to trust it completely, but my direct experience just won't let me . . .
 
#3 ·
"Better" is very subjective. What I think would make it better might send other people off to by a Harley. :D But I have a couple of ideas -

  • ESA shocks that can be rebuilt at a reasonable cost
  • Same power and power delivery as the K1300S
  • Quick Shifter from the S
  • Color matched topcase from the factory (possibly standard equipment)
Those are what come to mind immediately.
 
#4 ·
I agree with what Meese and Dave.

A big improvement for future KGT or any bike is that if the bean counters were not trying to cut corners or constantly find ways to save a nickle here a dime there.




I know they claim the bike would cost 35k or some such, not sure I really believe that after the warranty cost on crappy quality and lost sales.
 
#5 ·
All the things that have been mentioned so far...yes. Also, go back to the contoured and ergo brake and clutch reservoirs.

However one thing that I have always thought that would be really cool is a more modern instrument panel. I've always thought that something futuristic and digital all around would be great. Something like a color LCD screen like you see in an airplane cockpit. Make it all touch screen and integrate a GPS, radar detector, MP3, etc. Probably just another thing to break down though.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Andre said:
Greetings,
Please do not misunderstand me , to me the gt is the ultimate bike. But I'm just wondering: can better be found ?
I'm not going to try the contour, the fjr or the pan (st) but is there room to make a substantially better sport touring bike? What would that take?
I would not know, do you have any ideas ?
I thought: let's trow the question in the group and see what reaction it spins
A.
Why would you not try try other machines?

Anyway..

I briefly owned an '08 K1200GT.
Liked the idea, did not like the execution of the product.

When the Concours 14 was introduced i was very interested to see it. When I read about it I thought that they missed the mark. Even though it wins some comparrison tests in the MC Magazine scene. Complaints about too much engine heat, crappy fuel milage and range, not enough wind protection, not enough options, especially, heated grips and cruise.

Seems that Kawasaki has made some significant efforts to address weaknesses and consumer critisizms in the original design.

Just read about the new 2010 Concours.
The '10 versions has:
a larger stock windscreen
standard heated grips
engine heat management improvements
traction control
ambient temp readout
ability for rider to improve fuel milage by choosing an economy mode for engine management mapping
better storage in fairing
repositioned mirrors
and more...

All for $15,100
Sounds like a winner, all they have to do is add electronic cruise control.

PLUS

I see that Honda has brought a 700cc Sport tourer for the US market 2010.
Shaft drive, removable? hard bags (not sure if they are detachable), adjustable screen, ABS.
If they have the sense to have some gadgets available like heated grips and cruise, could be very attractive.

ALSO

There is no 2010 St1300 on the Honda Website. Maybe a retooled design for mid-year is on the way.

I owned a 1996 Honda PC 800 (Pacific Coast)
Nice running machine. No clunky shifts, no clutch judder, no fueling issues. I know, no character. Needed a few things such as Better Brakes (rear drum), ABS, electric adjustable windscreen, cruise, heated grips. If it had been equiped with those items, I might still be riding it.

Dmilan
'05RT
 
#8 ·
I plan on taking a hard look at the competitor's offerings in the spring. The engine stalling issue and what I consider the complete lack of credible response by BMW has soured me on the brand.

Money isn't the issue. I paid cash for the K1300GT. I like the bike but the intermittent stalling is at least annoying and at worst dangerous.

Add to that, the "local" dealership (an hour's drive away), is closing its doors, so I'm left without reasonable maintenance support. I have two Honda/Suzuki/Yamaha dealerships within 15 minutes of my home and office. I had a deposit on a S1000RR when the dealership folded. I got my money back but was told I would be called by BMW to transfer the position to another dealership. I have even sent emails and left messages. No response from BMW.

I can't imagine how I would stay in business if I treated my customers this way. Sad.
 
#11 ·
AJB said:
The new Honda VFR1200 seems aimed at the BMW sports touring bikes. It will be interesting to see what value for money is delivered along with what is bound to be very good performance. The small tank will put many high mileage guys off though.
I'm sort of interested in this one. Weight still seems a bit high on it though which may account for their smaller gas tank. Riding a bike that is 300 pound lighter than the GT is amazing. Honda's fuel mapping may (hopefully) be better than what BMW has done in the past and hopefully it doesn't overheat and blow coolant all over the place like their older VFR's did especially stuck in slow traffic.

We've had one Honda dealer fold up shop though and our Kawasaki dealer is gone too. They moved locations and no one found them and one day when I dropped in, sign said "Out of business end of July." Local Yamaha dealer has sold out three times and is now being sold at the larger Polaris dealer who also acquired KTM as well.

Augusta looks like it may be a goner too without Harley's money and some CA Harley shops are in trouble and closing like the one in Auburn, CA. Buell is officially dead too. Pickings are getting much smaller around here. :(


Mack
 
#12 ·
AJB said:
The new Honda VFR1200 seems aimed at the BMW sports touring bikes. It will be interesting to see what value for money is delivered along with what is bound to be very good performance. The small tank will put many high mileage guys off though.
That remains to be seen. It's still looking more like a VFR replacement, rather than an ST replacement. But we'll see once the bikes get out there and get a few miles on them.

And yes, the LD crowd is very interested, especially those who are considering or have already jumped ship from BMW . . .
 
#13 ·
Brahma said:
Did you need it? Did you get the final drive fluid analyzed after your Iron Butt? That would have been great to hear about.
Nope, I didn't need the FD, and neither did the other '07 GT that was carrying one. I did have a shifter problem that took far longer to sort out than it should have, but otherwise the bike did great.

And yes, I changed the FD oil right afterwards and saved the old oil. Haven't sent it off for analysis yet though.
 
#16 ·
Meese said:
Nope, I didn't need the FD, and neither did the other '07 GT that was carrying one. I did have a shifter problem that took far longer to sort out than it should have, but otherwise the bike did great.

And yes, I changed the FD oil right afterwards and saved the old oil. Haven't sent it off for analysis yet though.
Great to hear on both accounts. I can't really stress enough how intersting it hopefully will be to ghear the report on tyhe analysis. Not many of us are racking those kind of miles to analysis like that Ken! I doubt BMW even has...

Did you ever geto to a post mortem of the ride? I remember hearing about your shifter issue and being puzzled about what that was...

Maybe start a new thread about your ride report?

Thanks-

D.
 
#17 ·
There's another review and brief ride report on the Honda VFR1200 here.

It still looks to be more on the sporty side, with a tucked forward riding position and bags as options. Still, that motor could be fun . . .
 
#20 ·
free2ride said:
The story on this link has been removed until the 26th. Who knows???
Interesting. It was up this morning.

He basically said it was a short ride, maybe 20 minutes each for a bunch of journalists. But he liked the bike and especially the motor. It was the normal manual shift version, not the dual-clutch paddle shifter.

Guess we'll still have to wait until they show up at the Cycle World shows, or better yet, at a dealer for test rides . . .
 
#21 ·
Meese said:
That remains to be seen. It's still looking more like a VFR replacement, rather than an ST replacement. But we'll see once the bikes get out there and get a few miles on them.

And yes, the LD crowd is very interested, especially those who are considering or have already jumped ship from BMW . . .

I just met with the local Honda dealer principal. Times are tough at Honda. He strongly suggested this bike was being looked as quite a coup. There is a lot of value in Honda being able to replace two existing models (VFR, ST) with one. He suggested we'd being seeing a lot of this type of consolidation. He also suggested the move upscale into BMW territory was due to their read on the economy. People in this bracket can tend to be a little more resilient to the economic influences of the time. Specifically, when he talked VFR, he talked about four models, all based on basically the same frame and drivetrain. Think KR, KS, KGT.

This could be very interesting. He suggested major press before month-end. Stay tuned.
 
#22 ·
SKIZIKS said:
Specifically, when he talked VFR, he talked about four models, all based on basically the same frame and drivetrain. Think KR, KS, KGT.
As I thought, they're gonna do a more touring oriented version to replace the aging ST. Interesting . . .
 
#23 ·
I certainly wouldn't hesitate to buy another Honda if the package was there. The ST1300 just didn't do it for me, and I had an extended rental (roughly 3 weeks) to learn to love it.

Certainly no rush, though. This BMW was my first new bike in decades, so I can hold my cards for a while! :teeth
 
#24 ·
Smilodon said:
I certainly wouldn't hesitate to buy another Honda if the package was there. The ST1300 just didn't do it for me, and I had an extended rental (roughly 3 weeks) to learn to love it.

Certainly no rush, though. This BMW was my first new bike in decades, so I can hold my cards for a while! :teeth
+1

I loved that old 1986 Honda Magna (hence my handle). V-4, shaft drive, smooth, powerful, but it wore out. I wouldn't mind another Honda V-4 like it, but I hope that it will take a long time for the K1200GT to wear out before I need to start looking again.

I wonder if any version of the new Honda will include all those goodies that I love on the K1200GT - cruise control, heated grips and seats, TPM, etc. I bet that they leave them off, to avoid cannibalizing Gold Wing sales.
 
#25 ·
alternatives

I think all of us have considered alternatives to the GT. Since BMW didn't replace the K1100LT until the K1200GT (2006-8), I looked at the ST1300, FJR1300, and Concourse. If you ride or at least sit on these and check the specifications, if you are of normal adult size, the new GT is the only choice so far. The others don't carry enough weight to actually tour 2 up with all the camping and clothing required. The riding position and size on the others is not acceptable for an adult size male.

I love my GT and have had very little problems after I got the upgrades and a "real" horn. I had to lower the passeger pegs, as well.

Things can always get better, but this animal is pretty good. :clap:
 
#26 ·
I too looked at the "competition" when I decided I needed something more sporty than a Goldwing. The K1300GT, at the time, was clearly a better bike to me, as compared to the offerings from Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha. That was a money no object decision.

However, given the stalling issue and switch failure (which really left me stuck in a bad situation - angry wife having to come get me :spank1: ), I will give the new Honda a serious look. Add to that the closure of the closest BMW dealership (already 1 hour away), with two Honda dealerships within 15-20 minutes of my home and office, the Honda becomes more compelling.
 
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