It's a matter of timing - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old Oct 27th, 2009, 11:37 pm Thread Starter
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It's a matter of timing

Hi guys.
Last time I posted it was October 13th and it was about HID "tricks" on the 07 GT. I posted a lot of pictures, but you might have noticed there wasn't one with the HID headlamp on. Why you might ask? Well the reason was, I couldn't get the bike started. Battery problems? No, at that time it had a 2 day old Odyssey PC680MJ.

Then what was the problem? It cranked like a son of a gun but just wouldn't fire. Not even close. I stopped short of burning anything up and then tried again the next day - same story. Next day, same story. Yadda Yadda.

I called the dealer and made an appointment for my annual & level 1 service (22k) and noted the bike wouldn't start and could they pick it up? Sure. Also, I complained that the timing chain had been sounding like shit on cold startup for a year and was assured they would replace the tensioner with the new reservoir type under warranty. I also confirmed they would change the fluid on the FD.

The morning they were going to arrive for the pickup, I went out to the garage and tried to start it one last time. For once it actually started, but Holy crap, the racket it created made such a noise I had never heard, I shut it down within 3 seconds. When the van driver arrived he asked if he could try and start it, and I said NO WAY. I asked that it be haul in as-is and once in to the shop they as a group could testify what was wrong after they had it there. He agreed.

By the time I drove the cage to the dealer and walked to their service bay, the bike was already out of the van. As I walked in I asked "did you guys try and start it"? They said "yes, but it wouldn't start and something is definitely wrong with it". We got all the other service agreements set in place, I signed an estimate that the work on the bike would be around $1K (damn valve check), and they had written up that the tensioner would be changed under warranty.

This afternoon I went to pick up the GT. I was "happy" the bill was only $710 including 4 $22 spark plugs. The service tech explained that they had to "retime" the engine by moving the chain back (or forward) a whole link. He thought the chain had jumped a whole tooth and that is why the engine wasn't starting.

Lesson learned? Pay attention to your older chain tensioner issues. I've learned the hard way it has the possibility of being more than just a noisy inconvenience. Don't take the "they all do that" as an answer to your complaint. BMW wouldn't have redesigned the whole mechanism if there wasn't a recognized engineering problem. I'm happy with my dealer, and I'm happy it was fixed under warranty. I'm just disappointed that BMW didn't make the chain tensioner issue into a voluntary "recall" situation or at least a written notice to owners so I could have avoided my situation. Also, I have noted the dealers comments about "chain skipping" so if I have future problems with the chain or gear teeth, it is documented what happened.
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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old Oct 28th, 2009, 5:58 pm
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I think this is a new topic around here. I haven't heard anyone talk about chains skipping yet...

Gulp!

Anyone else?
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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old Oct 28th, 2009, 6:27 pm
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A friend had a cam chain skip on his GT that ended up with an entirely new engine. We're pretty sure it was related to crappy dealer service, but at least it was covered under warranty.

But yeah, it seems pretty rare overall.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles and counting...
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 60K miles miles and counting...
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#145, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032

All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old Oct 30th, 2009, 9:11 pm
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The other day I turned the bike off while waiting to get through the tunnel in Zion NP. When I started it up to get going again there was an unholy racket coming from the clutch side case. There being nowhere to pull off I had to keep riding and the noise was very clear inside the tunnel. Thankfully it stopped about a minute later and hasn't returned, BUT I will be reporting this to the dealer and have them take a really good look at all the chains and gears when they have it apart anyway to replace the clutch for the squealing noise. I cannot imagine that it could have skipped a tooth and still be running, but I really have no idea what caused the racket. Hopefully they can find a cause as it was quite unsettling.

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.
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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old Oct 30th, 2009, 9:30 pm
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Rainman....you better go buy a lottery ticket....you are SO lucky!!!!
That was a valve bending just millimeters from happening.
Glad it was caught.

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. Will Durant

2006 K 1200 R
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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old Oct 30th, 2009, 11:49 pm
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I have an 08 that has had clutch squeal since new (now 15,000) and I can't get my BMW shop to do much except acknowledge that they hear it but as it does no damage there is nothing to fix. Are you getting yours relaced under warranty and if so how?
Marty
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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old Oct 31st, 2009, 1:11 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidS
When I started it up to get going again there was an unholy racket coming from the clutch side case.
The two possibilities are the cam chain tensioner or the oil pump chain tensioner. The oil pump chain is tensioned by a fixed bolt so it's unlikely to change then change back, although the dreaded clutch squeal is thought to be the oil pump chain, and that does go away after time.

Most likely it's the cam chain tensioner, which slackens as the oil drains down into the engine, then pumps itself back up as the oil pressure rises. This can cause a god-awful racket on startup that does diminish a few seconds later as the oil pressure comes up.

You can see pics of the old and new tensioners in post #5 of this thread. There is also a link to the official Service Bulletin in post #8.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles and counting...
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 60K miles miles and counting...
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#145, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032

All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old Oct 31st, 2009, 1:14 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martybmw
I have an 08 that has had clutch squeal since new (now 15,000) and I can't get my BMW shop to do much except acknowledge that they hear it but as it does no damage there is nothing to fix.
Unfortunately, that's a common response to this problem. A good dealer can push things through, but there's little an owner can do by himself.

My GT is now on its fourth clutch, and every one of them has squealed to some extent or another. Just the way it is, I'm afraid.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles and counting...
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 60K miles miles and counting...
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#145, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032

All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old Oct 31st, 2009, 1:20 am Thread Starter
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Lucky

I do feel lucky. It's hard to believe the timing somehow got off between running great one afternoon, and then refusing to start on another. If this is what the setup looks like, it seems like it is not possible for the chain to slip on these gears with all the guards in place. But why would it not start, and now it does? And it is real quiet again. There is a little noise for maybe 1/2 second and then it is gone. Not the 3-5 seconds like before.



Marty, I haven't had clutch squeal at all yet. This part of my service bill was all covered under warranty.
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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old Oct 31st, 2009, 11:01 pm
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Just a warning: if you do buy the new cam chain tensioner you have to buy the whole kit. Ordering part by part using the fiche will result in all the parts except the cap. And there is no seperate part number for the cap.

-=grif=-
What was that middle thang?
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