Something Just Ain’t Right!!! De-accelerations, Idle Issues - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 2010, 7:58 pm Thread Starter
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Something Just Ain’t Right!!! De-accelerations, Idle Issues

So this past Saturday, 8/21/10, I got up and felt the need to ride up into the Sierra Nevada’s as it had been a month since I put some serious mile on the K13. (Refer to 1000 mile ride if interested: http://www.k-bikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22290).

I decided to ride State Rt. 4 (Ebbitts Pass -named after John Ebbetts, el. 8,730 ft/2,660 m, is a high mountain pass through the Sierra Nevada range in Alpine County, California), then south down State Rt. 89 (Monitor Pass - el. 8,314 ft. / 2,534 m) and then back west up and over State Rt 108 (Sonora Pass – el. 9643 ft/ 2,933 m).

Rode over to the Livermore, Ca. BMW dealership and purchase a quart of 5w-40 Syn oil as I had just added a ½ qt prior to leaving home. One quart total since the 600 mile service. (Oil consumption is worthy of another thread to be started later.) Miles on bike at departure: 4730.

Left the dealership at 10:30 AM and headed east on 580 then past Manteca and over to Escalon and then back roads up to Hiway 4. Traffic was actually pretty light and the temps were in the mid 80’s, but there were clouds over all of Sierra’s. Hmmmm, possible thunder storms later in the day. Hope not, but I did pack my rain gear.

Ok, now to the “De-accelerations, Idle Issues”. Over the past couple of months I seem to notice that on occasion when downshifting the motor wasn’t idling down like it should. Primarily noticed on 4th to 3rd or 3rd to 2nd downshifts under firm braking, and a couple of times it even buzzed up a little. A first I thought it was me and sloppy throttle management but that is not the case.

Two of passes (Eddetts and Sonora) drop down to a one lane road and are steep (20-26% grade) with several miles of tight 180 deg. switchbacks. Definitely 1st gear, 2-5MPH stuff if there’s another car in the corner coming at you. Going up the grade and into a corner the issue of the high idle was not as noticeable but when I crested the summits and heading downhill the bike was carrying too much speed into the corners even though I was OFF the throttle. The bike needed extra braking to keep it slowed down enough to make it through the turns. Normally the real tight corners would be taken in 1st or 2nd gear, setting up each turn with a little braking and then using engine compression and no to little throttle coming through and exiting the turns.

I’ve ridden these passes before on several different bikes over the years (carbureted and fuel injected bikes). They’re fun roads but not when the bike won’t idle down. About halfway down Ebbiitt’s Pass I stopped and let the bike idle in neutral for about a minute then quickly “blipped” the throttle to about 4-5K RPM and made sure it was brought back to the “closed” position. The Tach / engine would immediately drop down to 2K and settle there for a second or two and then take a couple of seconds to drop to 1.5K and then down to idle at 1 - 1.1K. Shutting off the bike for 5 –10 minutes or a 20 minute break for a gas stop in the town of Walker didn't change the high idle condition on de-accelerations. Riding at 60-65 MPH I would shift down through the gears using the “gears” and “engine braking” to slow the bike down. No high idle latency. But when I would try it with braking and keeping the engine in higher PRMs, drop a gear, immediately off throttle, pull in clutch and the RPMs would drop to 2K, float there for a second and start dropping off. Off throttle, clutch in the bike should drop to “idle” in a flash!!! None of this 2 - 4 second delay crap! The local dealership is closed on Sunday, Monday so I’ll give them a call on Tuesday.

As for the rest of the ride, it was great. A few rain showers coming down Ebbitts, , but not quite enough to get out the rain gear. By the time I got to 89 / Monitor Pass I was almost dry. Down on 395 it was windy, but not dusty, just an occasional tumble weed. Over 108 / Sonora Pass temperature got down to 58 degs and up on top the clouds were pretty dark and grey.. Fortunatley just a few light showers on the western side.

Rolled into the garage at 9:04 PM with an additional 403 miles on bike. As for the “De-accelerations, Idle Issues” I’ll keep you posted.

Bruce
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Last edited by K13GT; Aug 24th, 2010 at 7:39 pm.
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 2010, 8:37 pm
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Deja Vu!

Sonora Pass is where my K1200GT went nuts last year. Actually, it began around Jamestown with the high idle and the slow to drop stuff at several stop signs. Seems like a long highway run gets it hot enough to warp and stick. Later at the summit, it began dying between shifts and no more high idle. Nothing like being in one of those slow 180 degree hairpins and it just shuts off downshifting to 1st. The snow bunnies made it all the more difficult to keep it running as they just stop in the middle of the road due to the snow pack along the sides. Around Minden, NV it was really stalling in traffic and I made it to the BMW Sparks, NV dealer who had me take it to Ozzie's in Chico, CA as they were flooded with work. Not many stop signs or places for it to hang up between Sparks, NV and Chico, CA on Hwy. 70.

Sadly, they all seem to do that stuff...eventually. Seems the fix is a newer airbox that and maybe the idle solenoid too. Then toss in a software update for good measure. Darn things just loved to warp and stick. Dealer is at the mercy of corporate as to what gets changed and done. They probably go the cheapest and easiest first, and leave the harder expensive stuff for last.

Have fun and good luck!


Mack
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 2010, 8:54 pm Thread Starter
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Hi Mack,

When you say "... gets it hot enough to warp and stick" are you referring to the throttle bodies? Up on the passes the temps for the most part were in the low / mid - 60s. I was enjoying the ride, not pushing it at all, bike was by no means hot. I'm running the latest "flash" and I thought that the air box issue was resolved prior to the 2010 models. Now you may be on to something with the "idle solenoid".

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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 2010, 10:02 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K13GT
Hi Mack,

When you say "... gets it hot enough to warp and stick" are you referring to the throttle bodies? Up on the passes the temps for the most part were in the low / mid - 60s. I was enjoying the ride, not pushing it at all, bike was by no means hot. I'm running the latest "flash" and I thought that the air box issue was resolved prior to the 2010 models. Now you may be on to something with the "idle solenoid".
There has not been any airbox issues with the 2009/2010 1300GT. I had those issues on my 2006 1200GT.(long gone)

But, I did have and it is aknown software issue, Sometimes decelerating and downshifting into 1st, there would be a shut off. This happens after 1000 miles on the odo or thereabouts. I was bothered with this last summer when my bike was just a few months old. BMW at first blamed it on crappy USA gas and told the dealers to clean the throttle bodies until they came up with the real fix.

Tell your dealer to upload the newest software version and you should be fine. My bike has run perfectly since then.

Larry
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 2010, 10:43 pm Thread Starter
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Larry,

Back in early April the software was upgraded to the 14.2 version, but my bike had never experienced the stalling problem. What the 14.2 flash did do was introduced the intermittent "Low Oil" light <!>. I had to take it back to get it "re-flashed", this time the dealer said it was version 14.5. The "Low Oil" light has not reappeared since the 14.5 update (even when it's a 1/2 qt low).

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 2010, 8:42 am
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Yup, It's a software upgrade deal

Nothing wrong w/your throttle bodies. Mine were pristine when I had my upgrade installed, the bike never stalled again. Then I had Dave at Redline install the PC-5 fuel module and dyno-tune it...boy, talk about utterly reliable and smooth power, sheesh!!! Flawless ever since, pure pleasure and tons of power at every conceivable situation, rain, sun, steamy hot or in the mountains on the fast pace twisties. Get that puppy a Power Commander-5 and have one of the dyno boys tune him to the numbers...
TRUST ME, it's worth every penny to get it done!! -Dr Ron

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 2010, 11:58 am
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its the anti-stall software update that is doing the "stay at 2k rpm for a second or 2" that is how they solved the stalling problem. Unfortunately, nothing you can do about it and it took a little different riding technique to get used to it. I hardly every notice it now but there is a road here with 4 switchbacks like you mentioned, 180turn and steep uphill at the same time, I notice that throttle issue on those.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 2010, 1:08 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K13GT
Larry,

Back in early April the software was upgraded to the 14.2 version, but my bike had never experienced the stalling problem. What the 14.2 flash did do was introduced the intermittent "Low Oil" light <!>. I had to take it back to get it "re-flashed", this time the dealer said it was version 14.5. The "Low Oil" light has not reappeared since the 14.5 update (even when it's a 1/2 qt low).
Yeah, I got the 14.2 upgrade and all is well except the <!> low oil light comes on after an hour's riding, and after a stop whiel the bike is warm. Dealer of course replaced all sorts of parts. I want the custom upgrade, but I am not sure if it may cause some other problems such as yours. hmmmmmmmmm.

At what point did you get the stalling problem ?

Larry
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old Aug 24th, 2010, 8:39 pm
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I've got 14.2 and no stalling issues at all. Funny you were up in the Sierras this weekend, as I was too. Went up to Downieville on 49 Friday afternoon/evening, headed to Markleeville for lunch on Saturday, and then over Sonora Pass to Sonora. I remember the rain, too. Not enough for gear, but man, those suckers were big. Anyway, no throttling issues, including coming down the hill.


I'd just filled up with premium in Markleeville (at 4.099 a gallon!!!), so if the gas were to be a problem, that would be it. Chevron before that, and Tesoro in Jamestown afterwards.

BTW, if you get another run up there, take 49 to Mokelumne Hil, then right on 26 to Pioneer (and head up 88). 24 miles of twisties, with maybe 5 - 6 straights, none more than 1000', and most under 500'. Sweet little road.



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Last edited by Razel; Aug 24th, 2010 at 8:48 pm.
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old Aug 25th, 2010, 1:02 pm Thread Starter
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Hi Ray,

My bike has never exhibited any "stalling" problems at all, pre - 14.2, 14.2, or the latest 14.5.
I run Chevron Premium 95% of the time. Filled up at Chevron stations in Pleasanton, and then again in Murphy's before going over Ebbitt's. I'm just not buying into this "bad gas" causing the stalling or high idle conditions. I think that what happen is that BMW knew they had a low speed idle issue and compensated by controlling (slowing down) how fast the RPMs would drop to idle.

Ok, here's a test for you: Get your bike warmed up, put in neutral then quickly “blip” the throttle to about 5-6K and release the throttle, then watch the RPMs. Mine will fall to 2K, pause, then slowly drop (taking one to two seconds) to 1.5K, then take another second to drop to 1K (Idle). That's a dangerous condition in my opinion, ymmv.


Bruce

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