Cruise control...is it to blame? - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old May 4th, 2007, 1:22 am Thread Starter
Capn' Blowhard
 
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Cruise control...is it to blame?

I wrote a diatribe in the high idle returned thread earlier tonight.

I pondered why my bike was still doing the high idle, bucking BS again - had a nice 4 day 1000 mile trip to Eureka Springs (from Dallas) and yup...she acted up again, but only after cruising on the highway for a period of time at a constant speed.

I started listing out all of the things that occur during such cruising. What confounded me is that on day 3, I spent the entire day on the back roads, 150 miles worth, with nary an issue and my bike as dreamy as ever.

Day 1 and day 4 though, both involving highway miles, resulted in the high idle and bucking crap when slowing down for small towns and slower speed limits.

So what gives?

I did a bit of digging here through old posts and there are numerous reports of folks complaining about that behavior after using cruise control. Namely after spending time at a constant speed on the highway and of course, using cruise.

I have 7.1 (according to my dealer anyhow).

Other folks like Rusty have 7.1 and have had their airbox replaced and still experience the high idle issue.

So I'm going to do some experimentin' this weekend. I'm going to plot out a few 150~200 mile rides around here. I'm going to drive the routes with and without cruise and see what happens. 2 times on the route using cruise as much as possible. 2 times on the route without ever touching cruise.

I may be grasping at straws, but hell, I might actually grab one.

Has anyone else already experimented with this theory? Holy Grail search or maybe some meat to it...?


On a totally unrelated note here...I'm posting from my laptop and have the tube one. I just saw what may qualify as the most irksome commercial I've seen in some time. It's an ad for the new Volvo S80. It has a sensor that lights and and beeps whenever the driver decides to stop paying attention and is about to plow into something. Sort of like a fancy HUD version of that nodding off deal you used to see in magazines that you'd place on your ear.

The thing that bugs me is that the something this particular Volvo almost plowed into was a biker. Now, on the one hand that's great that Volvos may save us bikers but fer crying out loud...let's just take away all responsibility altogether why don't we? This way when folks use it as a crutch and it FAILS they can blame Volvo for not paying attention whatsoever.

Anyhow...I gotta go find that machine that pees for me now.

'07 BMW K1200GT
'06 Ducati Classic Sport 1000 Monoposto
K7 GSX-R 1000
"Oh, somewhere deep inside of these bones, an emptiness began to grow. There's something out there, far from my home, a longing that I've never known..."
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old May 4th, 2007, 8:48 am
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Disconnecting cruise

Is it possible to pull power to the cruise motor for your test without trashing idle? I believe that the cruise motor controls idle speed at all times, and it may be the idle control system that is out of whack. If this is the case, then simply not using cruise might not be enough to get a reliabe reading on your test.

Thanks for undertaking this. I only have 600 on my new GT, and bucking is very minor, but haven't taken it on any long trips yet. Love the bike, but am not looking forward to battling BMW if this problem rears its head.

Guy Howard
K12LT 05 (sold)
K12GT 07 - build 12/06 BMSK-P ECU (ASC retrofit), V.3 airbox, new o2 sensor @18k, PowerFrk module @25k
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old May 4th, 2007, 1:41 pm Thread Starter
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I should add that my only issue with the airbox warping thing is that if there should have been any day during the trip that it should have bucked and surged due to high temps warping the airbox, it should have been the back roads day. It was 3rd gear to redline 8 corners out of 10! Lots of fun, lots of heat. That day should have warped the airbox if that's actually happening.

So cruising at sustained speeds at significantly lower temps...how is that warping the airbox whilst hard riding is not? Makes no sense to me...

'07 BMW K1200GT
'06 Ducati Classic Sport 1000 Monoposto
K7 GSX-R 1000
"Oh, somewhere deep inside of these bones, an emptiness began to grow. There's something out there, far from my home, a longing that I've never known..."
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old May 4th, 2007, 6:27 pm
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I don't understand how a warped airbox that is ahead of the throttle would have anything to do with the idle wavering. It has to be in the throttle body or intake manifold, like a vacuum leak, to mess it up that bad. Too bad there isn't an easy way to plug on a vacuum gauge to see how it acts when the problem erupts.

Or some funky sensor somewhere. Maybe you have air in the radiator and those water sensors are acting up? O2 sensor? Just my WAGs.
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old May 4th, 2007, 6:43 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-6
I should add that my only issue with the airbox warping thing is that if there should have been any day during the trip that it should have bucked and surged due to high temps warping the airbox, it should have been the back roads day. It was 3rd gear to redline 8 corners out of 10! Lots of fun, lots of heat. That day should have warped the airbox if that's actually happening.

So cruising at sustained speeds at significantly lower temps...how is that warping the airbox whilst hard riding is not? Makes no sense to me...
That sounds reasonable. In Perth it is very hot all summer (90 plus most days) and even when it was 115 for a few days in a row I didn't notice the slightest change in the behavior of the bike. So far I haven't experience the dreaded idle problems at all but I would not be a happy chappie if I did!

One post I saw somewhere mentioned rough slides on something in the inlet that causes them to stick slightly when everything is very warm due to the expansion. This is the most logical explanation I have read of the what the problem is but I am not sure where I read it. Some bikes have a bit more roughness than others and this causes the idling problems. I will have to search for it and read it again.

Bob

2007 K1200GT Graphite
Ex 1986 Kawasaki GTR1000
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old May 4th, 2007, 9:48 pm
 
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Question Eratic Idle

Hey Nex, now I'm intrigued. If the cruise control is the culprit, that would be cureable by just not using it. Also, it may give the guys at the motherland some real information to pursue to find a cost effective fix. When my bike idles at 1050, it is as smooth as glass. When it is fluctuating; t is bitchy until up to cruising speeds over 50-60.

Let us all know how that research ride goes.

rusty
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old May 4th, 2007, 10:55 pm Thread Starter
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Rusty,

Will do. I can't imagine that it would be something as simple as "don't use yer Cruise Control!" but who knows?

In tracing back over all of my long trips on this bike, my idle hang + bucking bronco issues have only occurred on trips that involve highway riding, and thus cruise control.

Perhaps when cruise control is kicked on it's doing something that's not cleared until after the bike has been shut off.

In my riding, when I have used cruise, it's off and on - I'll flick it on for 5 minutes to stretch my right hand. Then off for a bit. Then back on to stretch or where I know there are no speed changes for quite a while. So all in all, in a run cycle (key on to key off) I will turn cruise on then off perhaps as many as 15 times...again, this is when I'm using it. I rarely hit highway speed, switch it on and leave it for a long time (10 minutes plus I'd say).

I'd encourage anyone else out there to not use cruise on their next highway jaunt to see if anything changes when they slow down. If you're having the bucking bronco issues when slowing down after a long jaunt, try it out and see if anything changes.

We'll know quickly if it's related or not - the first time my bike bucks after NOT using cruise on a highway stretch, I'll come right back here and laugh at myself for suggesting such a preposterous theory.

'07 BMW K1200GT
'06 Ducati Classic Sport 1000 Monoposto
K7 GSX-R 1000
"Oh, somewhere deep inside of these bones, an emptiness began to grow. There's something out there, far from my home, a longing that I've never known..."
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old May 4th, 2007, 11:00 pm Thread Starter
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Another simple way to query this...

Is there a GT owner here on the forums -without- Cruise Control that has experienced the low speed bucking bronco routine?

Remember, I'm not talking about a sensitive throttle or snatchiness (I love saying that) at low speeds...I'm talking about rolling off the throttle less than 1% and having the bike SLAM forward as the injectors shut off (it's not engine braking, it's more like engine STOPPING). Crack it open again less than 1% and BAM you are bucked back in the seat. You know if it if it's happened to you.

It's the difference from how the bike is all the time during normal riding and when she turns mental on ya. I think that's one of the biggest obstacles we as owners are trying to overcome with our respective dealers...when we say "this gal bucks like crazy and has a super twitchy throttle!" they think we're talking about how she is all the time, which is a bit more sensitivity than other bikes. But there is a WORLD of difference between the normal high sensitivity of this bikes throttle and the almost unridable, unsafe bucking bronco routine. BBR is what I'm gonna start calling it I guess.

But I am curious if any GTs out there without cruise control have done this bucking bronco routine after a long stretch of riding at highway speeds (at a relatively constant speed).

'07 BMW K1200GT
'06 Ducati Classic Sport 1000 Monoposto
K7 GSX-R 1000
"Oh, somewhere deep inside of these bones, an emptiness began to grow. There's something out there, far from my home, a longing that I've never known..."
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old May 4th, 2007, 11:10 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMack
I don't understand how a warped airbox that is ahead of the throttle would have anything to do with the idle wavering. It has to be in the throttle body or intake manifold, like a vacuum leak, to mess it up that bad. Too bad there isn't an easy way to plug on a vacuum gauge to see how it acts when the problem erupts.

Or some funky sensor somewhere. Maybe you have air in the radiator and those water sensors are acting up? O2 sensor? Just my WAGs.
I wondered about air in the radiator as well! I burped it the other day, tossed some water wetter in there for good measure and buttoned her up. Can't say that it'll make a difference or not but we'll see.

I wondered too about the O2 sensor but figure that if it was faulty, it would act up during normal riding around town as well as during these long extended trips. I can ride around town for an entire tank o' gas and not once experience the bucking bronco routine.

It's only when I sustain a certain speed, or rather throttle input, for more than an hour or so THEN slow down for a 40mph speed limit or something like that...then the bitch rears her ugly head.

The thing that confuses me again about the heat/airbox warping thing is that during the times that my bike does NOT do the bucking bronco routine, that is precisely the time that my bike is the hottest during operation. During stop and go, or during hard riding in the twisties. The bike runs somewhat cool at a sustained 70mph+ so I can't for the life of me imagine anything in the air intake system from tip to valve warping. If my airbox was gonna warp, it should be doing so while hitting 10K on the tach corner after corner, but during those time she runs like a dream.....

'07 BMW K1200GT
'06 Ducati Classic Sport 1000 Monoposto
K7 GSX-R 1000
"Oh, somewhere deep inside of these bones, an emptiness began to grow. There's something out there, far from my home, a longing that I've never known..."
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2007, 5:44 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-6
Rusty,

In my riding, when I have used cruise, it's off and on - I'll flick it on for 5 minutes to stretch my right hand. Then off for a bit. Then back on to stretch or where I know there are no speed changes for quite a while. So all in all, in a run cycle (key on to key off) I will turn cruise on then off perhaps as many as 15 times...again, this is when I'm using it. I rarely hit highway speed, switch it on and leave it for a long time (10 minutes plus I'd say).
When you say you switch cruise control on and off frequently do you use the on off switch or just activate and deactivate the cruise by throttling back, touching the brake or clutch etc?

I have my cruise switched on permanently, with the red light glowing. I use it like you do on the freeways around town but on long runs I run for long periods with the cruise set to 120kph.

So far I have never experienced the bucking bronco syndrome.

Bob

2007 K1200GT Graphite
Ex 1986 Kawasaki GTR1000
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