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Residual off-throttle problems on 7.0

6K views 39 replies 11 participants last post by  joema 
#1 ·
Although I initially reported that 7.0 solved all fueling issues on my '06 K1200S, further riding shows otherwise. Current mileage: 8630, on 7.0 since 5948 miles.

The episodic, jerky off-throttle behavior still sometimes happens, but is less severe -- I'd estimate about 1/3 to 1/4 as intense.

It's most noticeable in 3rd gear sweepers around 50 mph, when you're gently rolling on/off the throttle. Normally such throttle transitions are very smooth and linear. When the problem happens, gently closing the throttle at first causes a smooth reduction, then power suddently drops to zero.

Problem comes and goes. When it happens, it's consistent for a period, say 1 hr. Shutting down the bike for 5 min always makes it go away, sometimes for 10-15 min, sometimes longer. Sometimes if I continue riding, it goes away by itself.

It's just like the 6.0 behavior, except less severe. 6.0 (on my bike) was borderline dangerous, the behavior on 7.0 is somewhat irritating but I can ride around it.

Problem happens with both stock intake/exhaust, full Akropovic exhaust & EVO intake, with and without O2 sensor connected. Have done TPS and ECU resets multiple times.

The fact it got better with 7.0 implies a non-physical cause: fuel injection software, not sticking throttle mechanism.

According to this thread, 7.0 incorporated sequential shutdown of injectors when closing throttle: http://www.k-bikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7168.

Has anyone else who had significant closing throttle problems on 6.0, and who upgraded to 7.0, experienced this?
 
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#3 ·
How sad..

...When do you think BMW Motorrad will be contacting the owners of 2006 K1200Ss about 7.01X or whatever they are working on as part of a "recall"? It would seem that a company of their "ultimate driving machine" reputation/credo will do something PROACTIVE on these issues. Agree?

Chuck V ('06 K1200S, granite grey, the FAST color.)
 
#4 ·
ChuckV said:
...When do you think BMW Motorrad will be contacting the owners of 2006 K1200Ss about 7.01X or whatever they are working on as part of a "recall"? It would seem that a company of their "ultimate driving machine" reputation/credo will do something PROACTIVE on these issues...
While it seems that way, Motorrad's current policy on the 7.x update is it's not mandatory, thus not a "push"-type recall. It's only done if customers specifically request it.

They may view 7.x as an interim fix, and could be awaiting more data before issuing a more final fix. Maybe then they'll do a recall. This is a common procedure in various industries, from software to airplanes to automobiles. Just speculating.

However the experience with 6.0 illustrates the danger of prematurely doing a recall. Imagine if all KS and KR bikes had been recalled for a mandatory 6.0 update. It would be quite costly, didn't fix the problem in all cases, and could have inconvenienced many owners who weren't having problems.
 
#6 ·
Hi to all, I should say this is my first post and I'm getting straight to the point (almost) !

I've been lurking for over a year on this forum reading all of your posts with great anticipation.

Unfortunately, there seems to be one major negative, and its made me balk at purchasing - constant posts of problems with what seems to be the engine management software throughout the history of the bike.

To be honest, being from the outside not owning the bike and reading every post, its like tossing a coin whether luck is on your side.

Without meaning too offend is the community being overly zeaolous ? (I can understand this given the purchase price.)

I've tried to be objective ( I know, sometimes thats pointless), its a great bike except...there have been so many posts I've read over a long period about this subject.


Regards to all

Richard

PS. My background - 41 yrs old. By no means a 'gun" rider (no pun intended) just love that feeling. I've ridden dirt bikes, Kwakka Z500's & 1000's, GX1100's, 650 Dakar (the latest toy) and I've dreamt about the K1200S for a long time as I continue to 'mature'.
 
#7 · (Edited)
turn off throttle and revs stay high

have the 7. whatever the last one was. Just did 375 NH today and IT IS DANGEROUS=not the roads, THE BIKE going in for repair-1st issue 12,000=fine shape as the rain washed the roads=little salt or sand,did slide front end a few times.This Hossack front end is increadable. The bike mags almost dismiss it but as one puts miles on and learn to feel the feed back, sutble yet there and very readable. And the front end is so stiff, totlay different from sliding tubes, you can "push" the front, and toss this bike around like a big dirt bike almost. FUN
 
#8 ·
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#9 · (Edited)
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#11 ·
gunnster said:
...one major negative, and its made me balk at purchasing - constant posts of problems with what seems to be the engine management software throughout the history of the bike...Without meaning too offend is the community being overly zeaolous ? (I can understand this given the purchase price.)...I've tried to be objective...its a great bike except...there have been so many posts I've read over a long period about this subject...
Gunnster, if you want a K1200S, now is a good time to get one. Most of the fueling problems are solved. Most of the posts you've read concern problem reports before version 7.0.

If by "the community being overly zealous", if you mean overly sensitive to this problem, the answer is definitely no. The fueling issues were so bad, the K1200S was lambasted by many independent reviewers when it was first released. The bike was pulled from production and BMW re-designed the injection system.

Unfortunately it still had some issues upon reintroduction. The degree and frequency of these varied from bike to bike, exactly why is unknown.

But most of this is "water under the bridge", as the current 7.0 software fixes most of the problems.

On my particular bike 7.0 was a big improvement and at first I thought it was perfect. However many further miles show there are still some intermittent unresolved issues, but much less severe than at first. I haven't heard any other owners report these, so started this thread to solicit feedback.

The K1200S combines long-haul comfort with sporting ability the way few bikes do. If Honda made an updated more powerful VFR or an updated ABS-equipped Blackbird I'd consider those. However they've abdicated that market segment and act like they don't care, so that decreases our choices.

The Kawasaki ZX-14 is another possible choice -- very refined engine, but no ABS, no factory luggage. The new upcoming Concours 14 (sport-touring, shaft-drive ZX-14) looks good, but is more in the FJR1300/K1200GT class.
 
#12 ·
Gunnster - I think you have hit the mark with many forum posters being "over-zealous". I try to look at many of these posts objectively though. What type of people read/post on forums? Of those, how might BMW enthusiasts be different? More picky? Less?(ha, doubt it)

I also think that there are lots of K1200 (S/R/GT) owners who DON'T post to forums, who might start their bike up, hear a strange noise, take it to the dealer, get told "it's normal", accept that, and go about their day. Those poor, uninformed, happy bastards!

I just turned 40, ride moderately aggressively, enjoy the occasional track day, and love the hell out of my K1200R. I don't hang out with many BMW people because, frankly, I don't quite fit the demographic. I'm sure one day I'll trade leathers for a Dririder, a Shoei for some flip-face job, grow a beard and get a pipe, but not yet!

I agree with Joema, most of the big problems have been cured, we're just left with a few quirks. Embrace the quirks and GO GET THAT BIKE!
 
#13 ·
while I agree some what with BMW people

and the new type BMW attracting non-BMW people like myself=I'm not considered PC by any strech. I WOULD NOT BUY THIS BIKE AGAIN if I knew about the fuel probs. Having the throttle hang whenyou let off and the revs stay high is a DANGEROUS BIKE. Other than that I love it, It's like a beautiful built blond chick that's got bad herpies. DUH>
 
#14 ·
Did about 150 mi today -- ran perfectly the entire time. Totally smooth carburetor-like fueling. Don't know what triggers the periodic jerky on/off transitions. At least on 7.0 they are infrequent and fairly minor, even when they happen.
 
#15 ·
sportrider said:
It's definately better than 6.0 , but getting smooth on/off throttle transitions are still a bit tricky with 7.0. I've solved mine though - bought a CBR1K and just use the S for highway superslab riding.
Yeah Yeah we know, you like jap bikes better. Just get rid of your KS and you won't have anything to complain about.
 
#17 ·
p.s. My k1200S goes up for sale in the spring for a KTM or Husqvarna dirt bike - if they fix the issues by then, it's a keeper, otherwise it's like a girlfriend who's good in bed, but can't be trusted.


Later Bros...


o'h and if you ain't figured it out by now, there ain't no room or no place for a pair of slippers and and a pipe in my tank bag!

That's the old dude's BMW era - not mine!
 
#18 ·
Well, I can only share my experience, which has been love/hate. The bike is absolutely drop dead gorgeous and the suspension is awesome.
The overall build quality is excellent.

The fuel management in my opinion is horrific - at least on my 05. I drive 150 miles round trip through heavy traffic and it's not pleasant. Between the sputtering /surging and the farting/backfiring...well, I just expected more - let's put it that way.


I will not recommend the bike to anyone, until BMW steps up to the plate and makes everyone happy, but it has potential - if your willing to wait for BMW to
figure the problems out and fix them, then go for it.
 
#19 ·
sportrider said:
Yea Dickhead...if the K1200S would have been right, I wouldn't have had the urge to buy a Honda, but it wasn't, so I did.

Tisk tisk....so touchy. I didn't mean it as an attack, kind of a jab (meaning just a friendly joke) so the dickhead remark was not really needed. It's cool though, I like jap bikes too. I have an 05 and don't have any feuling issues. Yes it's a bit jerky on low revs, but nothing that bothers me too much. Anyway, sorry you are dissapointed with your purchase, hope you are happier with your next bike.
 
#21 ·
XXFirefighter said:
reading stuff like this makes me NOT want to go pick up my K12S...
ARggg....I mean why? The XX been paid off... 0 issues... No "quirks" nuttin...
The above should actually be somewhat comforting. Most of the major issues are resolved. The 7.0 software fixes most of the outstanding fueling problems.

Most XX owners who upgraded to a K1200S really like it. However there's always some risk with any bike.

I think your chances are pretty good you'll be satisfied.
 
#22 ·
joema said:
The above should actually be somewhat comforting. Most of the major issues are resolved. The 7.0 software fixes most of the outstanding fueling problems.

Most XX owners who upgraded to a K1200S really like it. However there's always some risk with any bike.

I think your chances are pretty good you'll be satisfied.
I'm sure I'll be happy.. just skeered :)
 
#23 ·
XXFirefighter said:
reading stuff like this makes me NOT want to go pick up my K12S...
ARggg....
I mean why? The XX been paid off... 0 issues... No "quirks" nuttin...
I want the K12 BAD too..

XXFirefighter;

Don't let bike specific sites like this one get you down. These sites tend to gravitate toward the negative. The feuling on the KS is not as bad as it's made out to be. I have an 05 KS with NONE of the newest software updates, and my bike runs and feuls fine. It is not unrideable, nor is it a major chore to deal with in traffic. Is the feuling as good as your XX? Probably not, but the XX has been out for a long time and Honda has had the oportunity to do alot of development on the bike. Too many people (especially retards magazine guys like the ones at sportrider magazine) want to compare the KS to traditional literbikes like the GSXR or the CBR. I can easily predict which bike will win any comparo at sportrider magazine. The winner will always be the bike that is best suited to the racetrack, the most uncomfortable to ride with the newest moto GP tech. If that's what you want in a bike (and I like those bikes), then buy a repli racer and not the KS.

But when you compar the KS to other bikes of it's class (Hayabusa, ZX-14, ZX-12 and XX) is stacks up very favorably. Is it as fast as the Busa or ZX-14? No, but it's still dam fast. It handles far better than the Busa ans ZX-14, and is faster than the XX. Just look at the video of the KS going around the Nurhumberg track (sorry about the spelling) to know that it handles very well on the track and in the twisites. This is a good bike, don't let the focus on the negatives bring you down. It just does not have the same charachter of the jap bikes, and that is what we have grown acostomed to here in the US.
 
#24 ·
XXFirefighter said:
I'm sure I'll be happy.. just skeered :)
I know what you're saying. The S still has to prove to me that it's as good as my XX was. So far though, I'm pleased. Mine was delivered with the version 6 software and I didn't really have any complaints about the way it ran. I had version 7 installed just because of all the good things I had read about it. It is easier to ride at low speeds now. I can trickle along in first with the clutch completely out and the engine at idle and maintain ~8mph and it will stay there with no problem. That type of maneuver would have required clutch work with the previous software. Above 8,000rpm the bike still rips. I would say the performance between the XX and the S engines are very comparable.

The way I look at it, the S is a XX that's more comfortable and practical. I do love it, but time will tell if it's as reliable.
 
#25 ·
I have a friend who rides Haybusa and asked me to test ride my bike around the block. When he came back he said that one day this is going to be his new bike.

He found the engine Very smooth, great handling and wind protection.

He didn't notice Any fueling problems or other issues. And he has much more experience with Jap bikes then I do, so here is your answer.

Cheers;
Nick
 
#26 ·
joema said:
Gunnster, if you want a K1200S, now is a good time to get one. Most of the fueling problems are solved. Most of the posts you've read concern problem reports before version 7.0.

If by "the community being overly zealous", if you mean overly sensitive to this problem, the answer is definitely no. The fueling issues were so bad, the K1200S was lambasted by many independent reviewers when it was first released. The bike was pulled from production and BMW re-designed the injection system.

Unfortunately it still had some issues upon reintroduction. The degree and frequency of these varied from bike to bike, exactly why is unknown.

But most of this is "water under the bridge", as the current 7.0 software fixes most of the problems.

On my particular bike 7.0 was a big improvement and at first I thought it was perfect. However many further miles show there are still some intermittent unresolved issues, but much less severe than at first. I haven't heard any other owners report these, so started this thread to solicit feedback.

The K1200S combines long-haul comfort with sporting ability the way few bikes do. If Honda made an updated more powerful VFR or an updated ABS-equipped Blackbird I'd consider those. However they've abdicated that market segment and act like they don't care, so that decreases our choices.

The Kawasaki ZX-14 is another possible choice -- very refined engine, but no ABS, no factory luggage. The new upcoming Concours 14 (sport-touring, shaft-drive ZX-14) looks good, but is more in the FJR1300/K1200GT class.
+1 !!!

I own an '03 CBR1100XX Blackbird and an '05K12S
The way I expalin it is as follows.

They are 10 years apart. After all, the XX is a fuel injected '96.
BMW IS a XXI century bike. Finally a bike I don't have to spend $1500 worth of supension upgrades, has computerized valve check, and on and on.
Its only problem when compared to the XX is that engine management is not there. THe XX is much more smoother, and at low rpms is sooooo nice around town. I'd like to see the dyno chart but I really believe the power delivery on the K12S is much more 750ish than on the XX. By that I mean substantial BIG BIKE power is avaliable sooner on the rev range on the XX than on the K12S. K12S explodes around 8k rpms. Too high for a 1200cc engine IMHO. Just seat of the pants though....

Summarizing, it is not bad at all right now but having the XX to compare it to on a daily basis I'd say when and if 8.0 is done right the K12S will be a better bike. It still is BUT not on the engine department. WHich is not a bad thing. It gives me an excuse to keep them both.... :ricky

Serious now Mr. BMW. If Bosh and your german counterparts can't handle the fuel injection.... hire Keihin (look at the new Triumphs after Sagem couldn't do it), or Magnetti-Marelli or WHOEVER. With the kind of cars BMW manufacture, even F-1 cars, this is just a very BAD joke !!!! No reason for this to continue.
 
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