Immobilizer Antenna Ring Issue 'Update' - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 9:54 am Thread Starter
Veteran
 
jpalamaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Posts: 1,582
Immobilizer Antenna Ring Issue 'Update'

To [this] date, there have been four (4) 'antenna' ring replacements at BMW Daytona. They have not tried this but this came up in a discussion with the 'parts' manager and we wondered if it would work.

Perhaps an electronics engineer could comment. The thought was can a 'valid' key placed in close proximity of the ECU (e.g. taped, perhaps) get a 'signal' to the ECU for starting. This would presume that one had two (2) keys with one to physically turn on the ignition switch.

However, unless the antenna ring was NOT functioning there would be no way of knowing which key sending the signal, and the presumption would be that the key in the ignition was doing the job through the antenna ring.

Plodding along, I know personally that the plastic key can be pried apart and the 'chip' removed. Without a go ahead from an electronics engineer I'm not ready to most likely destroy my wallet key to test this. My guess is it will not work because the antenna ring likely 'excites' the electronics in the key and without that excitement just putting a key on the ECU somewhat fruitless.

Any thoughts?

John
Jacksonville, FL, USA
jpalamaro is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 12:53 pm
JCW
contributor
 
JCW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 4,827
My guess, NO.

I think the entire electronic transmission and receiving is on the small black device attached to the ring itself.

I think the ecu only gets the electronic open signal through the wires from this device.

I think there is NO receiver on the ECU itself.

I think...

(BTW I have this apart if anyone wants a picture)
JCW is offline  
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 1:09 pm Thread Starter
Veteran
 
jpalamaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Posts: 1,582
I'm sure you are correct. I posted this on another site as well, looking for some answers. Seems this idea falls into the DS category. But, when you know someone who was affected by this (Randy Prade) was sidelined on his long Alaska ++ trip with this happening, it takes a bit of wind out of your sails about long distance trips.

I'm guessing this latest issue is a quality control one and percentages are probably very, very low, until it happens to you. But, if this ring has been around since the CAN-bus e.g. R1200GS first, seems as of late is the only issues. Don't remember reading about it on the ADVRIDER forum on the 1st models. But, I could be wrong also.

John
Jacksonville, FL, USA
jpalamaro is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 1:11 pm
JCW
contributor
 
JCW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 4,827
Yeah. quality control. I think your right.

I actually broke a piece of mine off and it still works fine.

I'm looking for a way arond this as well so I can remove the entire ignition lock.

Don't ask why...

But anyway, the little back box connected to the ring acitivates when the ignition is switched on.

It sends a "wake-up" call to the key.

This actually passively POWERS the KEY ON and allows it to transmit the encryted signal on the key to the device.

The device receives the signal then sends this "code" to the ecu via the electrical connector at the bottom.

Let me know if anyone figures a way around this STUPID THING.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	immob.JPG
Views:	121
Size:	70.0 KB
ID:	5773  

Last edited by JCW; Aug 3rd, 2007 at 1:22 pm.
JCW is offline  
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 1:16 pm Thread Starter
Veteran
 
jpalamaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Posts: 1,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCW
Yeah. quality control. I think your right.

I actually broke a piece of mine off and it still works fine.

I'm looking for a way arond this as well so I can remove the entire ignition lock.

Don't ask why...
It's almost impossible to get to the damn thing also, without tearing the bike apart AND then needing the special tool for those funky fasteners that defy removing with normal tools. It would be nice if there was a 'run' of these parts that were defective so that BMW could announce that the following cycles with VIN ##### - VIN #### # be brought in for part change/upgrade. Likely not going to happen.

John
Jacksonville, FL, USA
jpalamaro is offline  
post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 3:55 pm
Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: , , UK
Posts: 3,750
Just my 10 cents, but most of these passive keys are like microwave resonators (or aerials) tuned to a certain pattern of frequencies. They don't have a battery inside and work like the Cotags in department stores. The device in the store at the exit or on the bike sends out a wideband swept frequency, and listens for which individual frequency combination is tuned by the 'key'. There are rules regarding the level of radio waves which can be transmitted. I think US has lower levels than elsewhere. This means the power of the radio signal from the ECU may be restricted and the 'key' has to be really close to the bike/ring/antenna - whatever they call it. I discovered this with my active alarm when I received new key fobs which didn't cover the same distance. Then I noticed the new fobs had a US wireless exempt license and put out less signal. You had to be sitting on the bike to de-activate the alarm.

Motor vehicles are notoriously hostile for any type of electronics like this and I'm afraid I wouldn't buy a vehicle with this type of immobiliser unless I could choose to have it turned off. Even my bike alarm which uses an 'active' transmitter in the key fob can be stopped by programming a number of ignition key on and offs in a sequence. This is necessary if the battery ran flat in the key or you accidentally dropped it in a glass of beer. The wireless bands are full of potentally interfering signals now and you don't want a wireless system deciding whether you can ride your bike or not. There must be a backup under your control.

Just like brake pad wear indicators, I wouldn't argue about defective components, just work out this is a bad thing on a vehicle used for transport without some means of bypass and try to get rid of it.

Then go buy a standard non oem alarm/immobiliser from Datatool or somebody.

So those are my thoughts.



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!
voxmagna is offline  
post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 4:11 pm Thread Starter
Veteran
 
jpalamaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Posts: 1,582
But what are our choices if we want to ride a BMW cycle? Apparently none. Is this a valid concern or tantamount to be worried about a lightning strike.

Randy Prade was stopped dead in Alaska and while not meaning to even appreciate the situation, it has happened to someone we know. But whomever I talk to or discuss there's no apparent workaround short of installing a new ring OR what? The damn thing can't be disabled, getting to it is almost impossible, at least in the field. Perhaps someone will can/design a 'pig tail' in parallel with existing harness so that you can reach in an plug in your 'carry with you spare' ring?

Or, [again] should I best worry about lightning strikes and forget the damn thing??

John
Jacksonville, FL, USA
jpalamaro is offline  
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 4:50 pm
JCW
contributor
 
JCW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 4,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamaro
Perhaps someone will can/design a 'pig tail' in parallel with existing harness so that you can reach in an plug in your 'carry with you spare' ring?

Or, [again] should I best worry about lightning strikes and forget the damn thing??
Actually, I think the plan of unplugging the broken one, plugging a new ring and transmitter, holding close WILL let you start the vehicle.

Once started, you could probably unplug it but I'm not sure.
JCW is offline  
post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 4:57 pm Thread Starter
Veteran
 
jpalamaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Posts: 1,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCW
Actually, I think the plan of unplugging the broken one, plugging a new ring and transmitter, holding close WILL let you start the vehicle.

Once started, you could probably unplug it but I'm not sure.
Plugging/unplugging will probably work, but boy, getting to it an even bigger problem!

Guess I'll just worry about lightning!

John
Jacksonville, FL, USA
jpalamaro is offline  
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 5:02 pm
JCW
contributor
 
JCW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 4,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamaro
Plugging/unplugging will probably work, but boy, getting to it an even bigger problem!

Guess I'll just worry about lightning!
Actually, just remove the small plastic sheild (two small screws)

Unplug the connector with the ignition still on the bike

Replug the connector.

Wait, you have a GT
JCW is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CIP CD 6.0 Update eljeffe K12/1300S 10 Apr 23rd, 2006 6:55 pm
Software update glitch? wyeknott K12/1300S 21 Nov 18th, 2005 1:44 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome