Bike won't start after fuel line QD replacement - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2007, 3:42 am Thread Starter
 
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Bike won't start after fuel line QD replacement

2001 K12RS with 40k miles and original battery (relevant in a minute), starting and running as usual despite poor gas mileage. Discovered leaking fuel line quick-disconnect, and parked the bike about a week while I read about it on this fine forum. Replaced the broken male part with identical plastic one from the dealer. I did this without removing the fairing, and used a fuel-injection type clamp instead of a crimp type. Unfortunately, the bike wouldn't start -- battery was weak and the starter just chattered. Pulled battery to charge it (bike's not near an outlet). I eventually got solid green light on the Battery Tender Plus, reinstalled battery but didn't know about ECU reset so I didn't do that. The starter turned over -- maybe weaker than usual, or it could've been be my imagination. In any case, the motor never came close to starting.

Based on this discussion:
http://www.k-bikes.com/forums/showth...2&page=1&pp=10
I confirmed the fuel pump fuse is intact, and that gas drips enthusiastically from both sides of the QD if I press the spring-loaded valve bits. It sounds like the fuel pump runs a couple seconds, i.e., normally, when the ignition key and kill switch are both on. (However, I *don't* hear the brake servo motor with the key on and kill switch off... my ABS failed a few years ago, could that be why?)

I did the ECU reset thing (twist throttle x 3). Ran the battery down again in my effort to start the bike, and even temporarily welded the starter relay closed (oops). To remove one variable, I replaced the battery with a nice strong new one. Same deal, bike won't start.

Although I've worked on carbureted Harleys before, I've never pulled the plastic off this k12; the local dealer has done all the maintenance. Based on the thread cited above, apparently I need to check the fuel line in, or attached to, the fuel tank. Since I don't know what I'm getting into, or what it looks like, I would appreciate any tips, gotchas, or ideas. Thanks.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2007, 5:11 am
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I have a curious phenomena on my fuel pump which might help. I have absolutely no reliability problems so I do think it's OK.

When I've stripped parts of the fuel line, emptied out fuel and put it all back together, the fuel pump 'burps' but sometimes doesn't make its sustained 2-3 second whirring noise when the key is turned on, which is the pump pressurising the fuel rail. It must do that.

If I remove each QD and poke the valves to release some fuel and back pressure, then reconnect, the normal pump sound returns when the key is turned and everything is fine.

I suspect you can get an airlock and the pump locks out with some kind of over pressure sensor. It's not uncommon either to find the fuel filter disconnected (wrong hose clips used) inside the tank. If you can get pressurised fuel from the delivery side of the QD, the filter should be OK.

You're throwing in other issues to do with the brakes which aren't going to stop the bike starting. If it has a good battery yours may still be suspect, try a car battery, get the polarity right!). ECU 'reset' isn't an issue to affect starting either. If there's fuel, compression, and spark at the right time it should run. However, these bikes can get flooded easily if you've been cranking on a low battery (impending doom for the starter relay - now you've read about it!). Either remove the plugs, dry them out, heat them up on a stove or gas torch and put them back hot. You shouldn't be twisting the throttle either when cranking. Just leave it at idle and crank 'till it starts. The ECU is in control for starting not your wrist and idle is 1100rpm!

These bikes depend on the battery for everything. A green light on a tender doesn't mean you have a good battery capable of putting lots of amps into the starter when you need them. When these motors get flooded after too many starting attempts, they often fire up next day when dried out. If I have to crank mine more than 3 or 4 times that's unusual I stop and wait a few minutes before trying again.

You mentioned the kill switch which must be 'off' mid position for starting, there's also the sidestand, gearshift and clutch interlock to think about. If you pull out a plug and get a spark then these are all set hot to go and there isn't a problem.



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Last edited by voxmagna; Dec 9th, 2007 at 5:17 am.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2007, 2:00 pm Thread Starter
 
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Hi Vox, thanks for replying. I mentioned the brake thing because in the earlier thread on this topic (you were an active participant), "randy" posted about the two sounds that should happen when the ignition key is turned on: the brake servo motor and the fuel pump. He said the latter only happens when the kill switch is on (midline, "run" not "stop"). I get only one sound, not two, but I'm pretty sure it's the fuel pump sound, not the brake motor sound. It only happens when I turn the kill switch from off (left or right) to on (center).

I should've also mentioned that the sidestand is up, the bike is in neutral, and I usually have the clutch lever pulled in too while trying to get the bike to start. I doubt flooding is the problem, as it was several days between running the old battery down, and reattempting with a new one. I don't smell gas.

I assume I need to pull the plastic to examine plugs and/or shoot some starter fluid to confirm it's a fuel problem and not electrical, then dig into the fuel delivery. Never worked on a FI motor before, and don't fully understand em.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2007, 3:03 pm
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OK, I'm on a '97 so no servo to listen for.

It's worth having the plastics off both sides to see what's going on. Last resort if you have a spark is Easy Start (Ether) into the air box. If you've been riding the bike you shouldn't need it, but sometimes after a long layup or rebuild the bores can dry up and compression drops.

Good Luck



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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2007, 5:37 pm
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Did you check the fuses?
I have one on my '04KRS that says "engine electrics" and another "fuel pump" according to the rider's manual.

Bruce C
'04 K1200RS Capri Blue(totaled)
2008 Triumph Sprint ST
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2007, 9:15 pm
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Disconnect the QD fittings, put a light touch of vaseline or motor oil on the o-rings, then re-assemble the QD making sure it "clicks" firmly and freely into position. I have seen the QDs on an R1150 cause a no-start condition after a tank removal, the QDs did not get seated into each other all the way and no fuel was being allowed to pass through the connector to teh fuel rail. Tip-off was a change in pitch of the fuel pump, much different from the normal cicada chirp you get when first turning on the bike.

Best,

GTRider
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2007, 2:26 am
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I would say....If you did the job without pulling plastic...then you must have had to really tug around the hoses....might have unpluged the pump and just dont realize that you did...
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2007, 4:36 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRider
Disconnect the QD fittings, put a light touch of vaseline or motor oil on the o-rings, then re-assemble the QD making sure it "clicks" firmly and freely into position. I have seen the QDs on an R1150 cause a no-start condition after a tank removal, the QDs did not get seated into each other all the way and no fuel was being allowed to pass through the connector to teh fuel rail. Tip-off was a change in pitch of the fuel pump, much different from the normal cicada chirp you get when first turning on the bike.

Best,

GTRider
Perhaps that's what I had and thought it was over pressure due to an airlock.

It must have been a painful task to change QD's without taking off plastics. Just getting the hose clips and their screws into a position where they don't scratch into the crank cover needs care and space to work.

Perhaps the OP got the QD's the wrong way round on the hoses. You mark each hose and put the male/female on the second hose the other way around so once right, you can't plug them together wrong. Trying to work through that small slot in the plastic is asking for things to go wrong.

And yes, did the pump connector get pulled off?

If the bike was running OK before work started, you have to wonder if it's what was done that now stops it starting.



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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2007, 2:43 pm Thread Starter
 
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voxmagna: starter fluid = ether. I'll try that when I dig into it... I didn't realize it could actually fix anything, I just figured it would show if the plugs are firing.

brucecha: yep, checked all the fuses. Even switched em around - no change.

GTRider: good idea, I'll try that tonight. I did have some trouble getting the QD seated. *Thought* I pushed it all the way home... It's the simplest explanation, man I hope that's it.

BAK04GT & vox: I only replaced the one fitting, the male side of the lower QD. Impossible to get them crossed etc. I did tug the hose a bit (not a lot), so that could be it. The fuel pump "sounds" like it's operating normally tho...

Thanks again.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Dec 17th, 2007, 12:10 am Thread Starter
 
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Update: I'm clueless. Removed the left and right fairing. Great, can't reach the plugs with my spark plug wrench, they're too recessed (was going to check for spark). Can't even *find* the air filter or intake manifold to shoot some starting fluid. Where is it?. Don't know what to check on the fuel delivery side; the lines (that the QDs are in) appear intact and have gas in them. They are firmly hose clamped to the 3 or 4" round thingy hanging off the bottom of the tank (the fuel filter?). I checked the QDs a few times to no avail. Mostly I don't know what I'm looking at. My experience wrenching on Harleys is feeling pretty useless.

I hate to buy a shop manual when fundamentally I'm trying to make this bike run in order to sell it. Likewise I don't want to tow it to a shop, although it might come to that soon. Can anyone point me to a simple online intro to the guts of the K1200RS? Google hasn't helped.
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