Stalling / BBS Syndrome - Time for action? - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
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post #1 of 63 (permalink) Old Nov 13th, 2008, 3:24 pm Thread Starter
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Angry Stalling / BBS Syndrome - Time for action?

Looking through this forum and others it seems that there is a significant number of us with K1200 bikes which have problems with low speed throttle control and engine stalling. I don't see too many posts saying the problem has been fixed permanently. It seems to be a problem getting the dealers to acknowledge the fault due to it's intermittant nature.

My '07 GT has the problem and has been in the dealers for a total of 40 days in the last four months - and it's still as bad as ever. It stalls on me at least once a day and trying to control it in stop/go traffic is difficcult. My 05 S has started the same nonsense. I'm sick of it.

I found I can reproduce the problem, though not guarenteed to work every time. Try this at home, if you like.... with the engine up to running temp (wait till the fan has kicked in a few times if you just started the bike) and the bike in neutral, rev the engine to 2000rpm and hold the throttle still. On my bike the revs will not stay at 2000 for long, they vary between 3000+ and idle. If I continue to hold the throttle long enough (usually happens within a few minutes) the engine cuts out.

Just an idea, but what if those of us who have these unresolved issues get together and approach BMW "en masse" so to speak. Demand that they acknowledge the problem and inform us what they intend to do about it.

Yeah, I know - pigs might fly - but if they don't try they certainly won't.

Bill.

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post #2 of 63 (permalink) Old Nov 13th, 2008, 8:02 pm
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What's the dealers response? They're supposed to fix it, and haven't. Sure, it's all over the internet, but that's fluff as far as BMW-NA is concerned, and I think that's trickled down to the dealer. If you keep taking it back (yeah, a real PITA), and document it, maybe Massey-Furgesen can be applied (I think I spelled that right) or the states Lemon Law, if there is one and it covers motorcycles.

But, this has been going on for some time, and the internet hasn't fazed 'em at all.



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post #3 of 63 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 2008, 5:57 am Thread Starter
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Just got the bike back after another (3 week) period in the shop. This time the dealer upgraded the software to the latest version. I haven't yet had the chance to properly test it in stop/go traffic.

Dealer says BMW have admitted that this is a common problem and that all the items that have been known to fix the issue have been done. There is no more they can do.

On the repair invoice, under "Resolution", BMW instructed the dealer to write (quote): "Suggest to ride in traffic conditions in lower gear position and higher rpm's" Like I said to the dealer - there is no gear lower than 1st!!

If the bike is not fixed this time I will return it to the dealer and ask them to either buy it back or supply one that works properly.

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post #4 of 63 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 2008, 8:08 am
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Stalling

I believe that is the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Good luck.
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post #5 of 63 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 2008, 8:44 am
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The long story made short is that I had BBS/stalling on my 07 KS. Dealer replaced the ecu with the newer bmskp and that stopped the BBS. About 3 bottles of Techron over a few fill ups and the stalling is gone. Techron is worth a try, regardless of the gas you use.

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post #6 of 63 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 2008, 2:36 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allikanbe1
.....About 3 bottles of Techron over a few fill ups and the stalling is gone. Techron is worth a try, regardless of the gas you use.
Thanks, I'll give it a try.

Bill.

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post #7 of 63 (permalink) Old Dec 26th, 2008, 4:52 pm
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Does not sound good. Has anyone tried to identify a vacuum leak? They are still internal combustion engines. Run a vacuum gage and watch for any oddities such as needle on gage flickering. You should get a steady reading at idle. Should be able to find plenty of info on internet on how to interpret vacuum gage readings. Can be a useful tool.
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post #8 of 63 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2009, 11:00 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildbeast
Does not sound good. Has anyone tried to identify a vacuum leak? They are still internal combustion engines. Run a vacuum gage and watch for any oddities such as needle on gage flickering. You should get a steady reading at idle. Should be able to find plenty of info on internet on how to interpret vacuum gage readings. Can be a useful tool.
Fixed mine by installing a PC111.
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post #9 of 63 (permalink) Old Jan 5th, 2009, 9:01 pm
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There is a fix to this problem ... it's the PC III. I posted the same complaint on one of the boards and even posted video of the problem. My dealer replaced my airbox and it didn't fix it. I recently installed a PC III and had a custom map made for it. Tonight I tried the test and my RPM's are rock steady now. As a bonus a properly mapped PC III will also get rid of the vibration that made the mirrors useless above 5K RPM's.
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post #10 of 63 (permalink) Old Jan 9th, 2009, 10:38 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildbeast
Does not sound good. Has anyone tried to identify a vacuum leak? They are still internal combustion engines. Run a vacuum gage and watch for any oddities such as needle on gage flickering. You should get a steady reading at idle. Should be able to find plenty of info on internet on how to interpret vacuum gage readings. Can be a useful tool.
They might be internal combustion engines, but this one has a very big complex emission optimising control loop with a microprocessor stuck in the middle. Whatever the engine may or may not do, the control loop will apply its BMW artificial intelligence.

The other issue seems to be with different types of fault on the newer bikes, models and years. You can never easily compare apples with apples 'cos manufacturers emission constraints are always changing (leaner burn). If emissions were no problem you would just run rich at idle and push masses of fuel in during acceleration like the old days of chokes and accelerator pumps.

I have a much older KRS and I did use my Hg (now probably banned) manometers on the vac points. I have them and idle adjustment on each throttle body, but I gather not all models do. Then when I had the whole lot apart I found the engine breather hose had rotted apart and the throttle body flanges wouldn't pass on surface flatness.

If it's a systemic failure on a new bike that should be a dealer issue, if it's your problem then you just have to get clever, but I don't think vac guages alone will always solve the problem.



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