using a suction tool for brake bleeding? - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 2005, 10:23 am Thread Starter
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using a suction tool for brake bleeding?

Hi, has anybody used a suction tool for brake bleeding on the K1200RS with a servo, because i note it states on the service CD "do not use a suction tool for the servo?" but says nothing about using it for the brake calipers? any advice please?
Keith
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Dec 5th, 2005, 1:36 pm
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I used a vacuum tool on all the zerks; calipers and control side both. Not only did it get rid of some nasty brown fluid, the brakes were more solid.

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Dec 5th, 2005, 2:16 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oslin
Hi, has anybody used a suction tool for brake bleeding on the K1200RS with a servo,any advice please?
Keith
I see you do have the servo assisted brakes on your Euro 2001 bike. Glad you're using the right set of instruction.

Tim (CABNFVR) may have something to say about using vacuum, I think he ran into some problems if I remember correctly.

My question would be WHY? would you want to use vacuum? You're going to use the servos to power the fluid out when bleeding at the calipers, I don't think you'll gain anything by using vacuum.

Did you see the set instructions at http://www.k-bikes.com/ubbthreads/sh...b=5&o=93&fpart=
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Dec 5th, 2005, 11:55 pm
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Originally Posted by Gary
Did you see the set instructions at http://www.k-bikes.com/ubbthreads/sh...b=5&o=93&fpart=
Do check those links out. Gary is one of the authors, and I'm sticking my nose in just to say that with Gary's supervision, three of us managed to replace the fluid for all the brake circuits and the clutch, including fixing some rookie mistakes that Gary managed to A) convince us not to do it again and B)help get those issues resolved (don't suck out the old brake fluid all the way from the front brake resevoir, then go off and help someone else finish their fluid change. Air will gladly find a way into the system and then work it's way down. DAMHIKT). Brakes and clutch have worked flawlessly since.

Now, just gotta convince Gary it's time to do another "Tech Daze" with the brakes...



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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Dec 6th, 2005, 3:41 am
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A quick comment on vacuum. I had a small amout of air in my non-servo K12 on the rear which I couldn't shift. I think you get a small dead zone at the top of the master cylinder if you use that to 'push fluid through'. In the past I've used very small stroke actions to remove the trapped air, but it didn't work on this bike, whereas the vacuum bleeder pulls fluid and air through when the master cylinder is at rest and at the top of it's stroke.



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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Dec 6th, 2005, 6:43 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary
I see you do have the servo assisted brakes on your Euro 2001 bike. Glad you're using the right set of instruction.

Tim (CABNFVR) may have something to say about using vacuum, I think he ran into some problems if I remember correctly.........
I sucked all the air out of the inner (front) resevoir because I was watching the outer (rear) resevoir. D'oh! I got rid of the air by back flushing. David S from i-bmw told me about that trick.

Back fill: Use a syringe or fluid pump (some newer vacuum pumps can also pressure pump) and force fluid form the calipers to the resevoir. Be sure that NO AIR exist in the line when you start to force fluid through. Leave the resevoir caps on and let the resevoir overflow through the existing overflow hoses. Place a catch pan under them, of course. When the fluid in the resevoir is all new, bleed the resevoir back down to max level using a "normal" caliper bleeding method. --- Disclaimer: I have no idea what BMW would think of this method. it works for me, and there are no resevoir access issues. Do leave a catch pan under the overflow lines for a while so they can drip dry.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Dec 6th, 2005, 1:27 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CABNFVR
Back fill: Use a syringe or fluid pump (some newer vacuum pumps can also pressure pump) and force fluid form the calipers to the resevoir. Be sure that NO AIR exist in the line when you start to force fluid through. Leave the resevoir caps on and let the resevoir overflow through the existing overflow hoses. Place a catch pan under them, of course. When the fluid in the resevoir is all new, bleed the resevoir back down to max level using a "normal" caliper bleeding method. --- Disclaimer: I have no idea what BMW would think of this method. it works for me, and there are no resevoir access issues. Do leave a catch pan under the overflow lines for a while so they can drip dry.
Tim, if you read the fine print in the CD manual this is the same preceedure called for when refilling the system if you suck it dry, DOH! But you just gave way more detail than that cornfused manual does.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Dec 8th, 2005, 8:28 pm
 
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Problem with suction method

The contol circuit (handle bar brake to ABS unit ) should not be bled with suction. You will find a definite difference in feel and reaction in the brakes. The manufacturer is FTE . I have spoken with them and they agree that the pressure method is a preference with that unit. The control unit presurizes the sensor that signals the unit. It doesn't like suction but was designed for pressure.

I made the mistake of suction bleeding that circuit and it felt ok but not as strong as I remembered. I checked it several times for air in the circuit but found nothing. I pressure bled it and all was well again. The rest of the unit can be suction bled but I prefer pressure.

Never inject from the caliper end. Yes - I know the CD says to . The reason your calipers are lower than the ABS unit is so the sediment falls down hill (gravity) to the calipers. When you inject you help force the sediment into your (used to be) fine ABS unit. The tolerances there are tight and anything other than clean lubricating Hygroscopic brake fluid is unwelcome.

Make a pressure bleeder (cheap) and enjoy bleeding the entire system every year by your self. It runs me $10 in brake fluid every year. or I could pay my dealer to force the sediment into the ABS unit and then recirculate the system so there is sediment everywhere. Cost $300

Just Kidding - The good dealers use the pressure bleeding process. Some do follow the manual though (scary)
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2005, 12:31 pm
 
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JDGT......... What is a pressure bleeder? We need pictures, diagrams, parts sources, and a step by step write up
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 2005, 12:39 pm
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I think that's where you get a spare master cylinder cap, fit a cycle valve in it, buy a cycle pump, add a long spring behind the piston in the pump, connect to master cylinder cap, pull back on cycle pump, screw on cap, release cycle pump and go round opening bleed valves, but never letting the reservoir go dry.



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