Help with K75s---Update - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 2006, 8:12 am Thread Starter
 
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Help with K75s---Update

First, I ant to thank those that responded both by message and post. I have tried several of the suggestions, that i have capabilities to do, and want to offer an up-date to what is happen now.

After checking coils, replacing plugs, running the wiring that was visible and checking earth grounds. i noticed that spark plugs were not wet or seemed to have gas going to them. Spark on all plugs and from coils were strong. I drained the gas from tank and then remove fuel filter. Not sure if this is normal i check the flow of the arrow that fuel would travel and found that it was extremely hard to get air through the filter. (maybe be normal)
So I bypassed the filter and made direct connection to the fuel pump, keeping the fuel flow direction in mind and then tried to start machine. The started turned over nicely , but bike did not fire in the cyclinders. Again I removed plugs and same condition resulted. I unclamped the fuel line going to the fuel rail, and put in a jug to test fuel going to fuel rail. When I turned over the starter, again it worked perfectly, no fuel was sent out the line and into the jug. (no fuel to rail)

Now I am going to test the fuel pump with meter to see if it is getting a signal to pump fuel. Is there anything I missed or can also try or better method in testing. I am no mechanic or try to be. I use my service book and common sense, so any suggestion is simple as it may seem will appreciated. I also checked ignition switch and emergency cut off switch for function and they seemed to be operating as designed.

Thanks\
Jeff
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 2006, 8:34 am
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Question

Jeff,
You still did not specify your problem, from your original post, I can not comment whether or not the issue is really the fuel pump. Please answer the questions posted below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wejif1
My problem: bike won't start most of the time and if it does, it may cut off and never start again for long time.

"Bike won't start" meaning the starter cranks and engine just won't turn over? or does the starter cranking gets weaker and weaker, eventually just makes clicking noise?

Problem started after I stopped at Mall to get something(i know majorly bad mistake) then when I came out bike would turn over and try to start but act like it was flooded.

Bike would turn over?? do you mean the engine turns over or the starter turns over??


Upon arriving back 2 hours later it started and I bee-lined home. On the way home it cut off and I thought not again, but it cut back on and I returned home.

Do you mean the engine would cut out when traveling at speed like turning the engine off with the kill switch?
What exactly does "cut back on" means? does it mean that you were able to get the engine running after you got the bike home?



In the mean time it ran O.K. still very hard to start but at least it did start Week later I took it on the interstate for a ride to the next town, and it just died on me (cut off) I tried to start it and it would turn off and act like it wanted to but there was a force at work more powerful then the K-bike.

"very hard to start" like the engine not getting fuel? spark? or air? or the starter not cranking??

Stated that evrything checked out but it still acted funny, he suggested I buy a good battery $100.00 that it if battery or cell was bad or damaged and wouldn't allow full charge then bike would not start of cut off at times.


How old is the battery? have you tried putting a voltmeter and check the voltage while the engine is at idle and reving at 4000 rpm? should be reading 14-14.5 volt. at max voltage when engine's running.
This "bike would not start of cut off at times" problem is very vague, please be more specific, how does the bike act when it's hard to start? does the starter crank or just make clicking noise?
Once started does the engine idle smooth or rough?

When the engine "cuts off", does it sputter and the bike surge for a bit then dies or just cut off like someone flipped the cutoff switch?

Please be more specific.


Put it in bike seemed to start and run, took it home the next day bike acted the same way.

I put new plugs into it cleaned and check ground, tested HT leads, un hooked throttle position switch. But bike still hated me and tried but won't start.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 2006, 10:15 am Thread Starter
 
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The started turns seems to work like designed, and the motor does turn over like it is trying to start. The battery is less then 3 months old, and I did purchase the upper end of battery line. Originally the bike would act like it was getting some fuel but would starve and not start. I am not sure what terminology to use other then it was tryin to fire and start, but would not start. Motor turn over and starter turnover seemed to operate correctly.

When previously it stalled on me while riding it was just like the kill switch was thrown. at two previous time it would die like the switch was thrown then power back up like it was turned back on again. Then on the final time on the road it powered down like before but with starter turning and motor turning would act like it wanting to fire and start but just wouldn't. No matter what I try the headleght and lights come on when the switch is turned on and when the starter button is engaged and starter and motor turnover. The load shedding relay seems to be operating corectly, for while the starter button is pressed the lights and all go out till button is released. When I did try to start it as a test wil the kill switch turn to the cut off position, the lights would cut off as designed and the starter and motor would turn over.
I tried the things in my updated poast and now can't seem to get fuel to fuel rail. I did not mean to be vague or use the wrong discriptive words, but not quite sure of proper discriptors. I hope I was able to communicate the problems clearer. If not I will take the questions that maybe needed and try again. I am willing to try anything to get back again.
Thanks
Jeff
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 2006, 12:29 pm
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Jeff
I would pull the tank and prove that the pump works.
I take it that you have a repair manual( Haynes or other) with a wiring diagram. I only have a K100 manual, so I can't help you much.

Bruce C
'04 K1200RS Capri Blue(totaled)
2008 Triumph Sprint ST
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 2006, 12:01 pm
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I'm a bit out of my depth on this motor, but if we are talking fuel injection like the 1200, the fuel pump runs up to 50 psi on switch on and should do this even with a partially charged battery. When I split my fuel line, even 3 or 4 minutes later, there is always positive pressure in the line on the flow side to watch out for.

That pressurisation with the pump running a couple of seconds should happen first time the key is turned, without the starter. My 1200 has a relay for the fuel pump.

Have you blown a fuse now what drives the fuel pump and injection valves?

If comments aren't relevant to your motor - please ignore.



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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 2006, 5:41 pm
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K75 Starting Problems

I have read about the problems you have encountered and the test you have accomplished. It sounds like you have the necessary ignition but no fuel. I have looked at my service manual for the wiring for the fuel injection system. You should be able to hear the fuel pump running by just turning on the key and starter switch. If you do not hear the fuel pump then you have isolated your problem. From the fuel injection wiring in my manual, I found the following: The + battery wire goes to the key switch. From the key switch the wire goes to the starter switch. From the starter switch the wire goes to the injection relay. From the injection relay, two wires go out to the fuel pump and to the fuel injection control unit. I would think if the pump is not working the problem may be the wire itself and/or the injection relay. I hope this may help.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Apr 28th, 2006, 3:24 am
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Hi GT5-33, The K12's have one fuse for the fuel pump and injector solenoids (F4) does your diagram show that and can you tell wejif1 what its number is and where it is?



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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Apr 28th, 2006, 7:50 am
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K75s

I'm looking at a Clymer BMW K75 & K100 Manual for the years 1985 through 1989. I would be more than happy to fax copies of the wiring pages for the K75S. I remember when I first got my K100RT I tried to start the bike with a low battery. What happened was I burned to contact points contained in the starter relay switch located under the seat in the forward plastic compartment. This switch contained contact points much like old distributor ignition points. The fuel pump relay looks like it may have the same type of contact points which may be the problem. The problem is I do not have the K100RT anymore so I can't look to see where the fuel pump relay is located. The wiring shows an output wire from the ignition control unit going to the fuel pump relay. The two output wires from the relay go to the fuel pump and to the Fuel injection control unit. (page 283 of the Clymer manual)
As for the fuses, as far as I can tell there is a R/G wire from the Fuel injection relay going to the #6 fuse position in the fuse block. There is also a G/Y wire leading from the fuel injection relay to the #1 position in the fuse block. There are two wires leading out of #6 fuse one being G/W going to the fuel level sensor and then to the fuel pump. The other wire from #6 fuse goes to the horn G/Gr. The wires leading from the #1 fuse appear to nothing to do with the fuel system.

Just let me know if you would like me to fax copies on Monday. I will just need a fax number. If you are located anywhere near Ft Lauderdale Florida, I would be more than happy to loan my manual. If you want to pay for postage, I would mail the manual to you, but I would like to have it back as you never know when I might have another early K.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Apr 28th, 2006, 4:47 pm
 
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Didn't catch what year your bikeis, does it have a sidestand switch? It could be bad.
When you turn on the key, and/or press the starter button, you should be able to hear the fuel pump whine, for a few seconds at least. It sound like the pump is not operating. There is an electrical connector on the right rear of the tank, that may have come loose. Check that for power at that connection. Check the fuses. If you have power there, check the wires that connect to the top of the fuel pump.

CAUTION! Use clip on type connectors to test, you do not want any sparks in the fuel tank!!!!!

There have been instances of the connector that passes through the tank going bad. You obviously have the fuel cap assembly removed, if you have removed the fuel filter. You could remove the pump entirely, and test it outside of the fuel tank.
If the pump is bad, there are some alternatives listed at IBMWR.org, look for the tech pages.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Apr 29th, 2006, 8:31 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wejif1
The started turns seems to work like designed, and the motor does turn over like it is trying to start. The battery is less then 3 months old, and I did purchase the upper end of battery line. Originally the bike would act like it was getting some fuel but would starve and not start. I am not sure what terminology to use other then it was tryin to fire and start, but would not start. Motor turn over and starter turnover seemed to operate correctly.

When previously it stalled on me while riding it was just like the kill switch was thrown. at two previous time it would die like the switch was thrown then power back up like it was turned back on again. Then on the final time on the road it powered down like before but with starter turning and motor turning would act like it wanting to fire and start but just wouldn't. No matter what I try the headleght and lights come on when the switch is turned on and when the starter button is engaged and starter and motor turnover. The load shedding relay seems to be operating corectly, for while the starter button is pressed the lights and all go out till button is released. When I did try to start it as a test wil the kill switch turn to the cut off position, the lights would cut off as designed and the starter and motor would turn over.
I tried the things in my updated poast and now can't seem to get fuel to fuel rail. I did not mean to be vague or use the wrong discriptive words, but not quite sure of proper discriptors. I hope I was able to communicate the problems clearer. If not I will take the questions that maybe needed and try again. I am willing to try anything to get back again.
Thanks
Jeff

This goes back many years so I don't remember all the symptoms but I had a 1988 K75S and one of the wires that goes to the kill switch was poorly soldered and would intermittently kill the bike. It was a hard fault to find and not fun at all when you were in a corner and the bike cut out. You might want to look at that.

Also, I have a 1989 K100rs and I have had many problems due do corrosion of cable connectors. My speedo, and ABS sensors have all failed me and to repair them all I have to do is spray some WD40 in the connectors and reconnect. You may just have a bad connection somewhere. I would re-seat some of your connectors. You might get lucky.
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