Rhinewest Cam Gear Install Troubles - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
 
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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2006, 3:12 pm Thread Starter
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Rhinewest Cam Gear Install Troubles

I purchased Rhinewest's Cam Gear & Software set back in July (through Pirates Lair) for installation on my '97 BMW K1200RS. I'd planned to install it in the off-season, in conjunction with other preventive maintenance such as valve clearance checks, and finally got around to it the other day.

While the chip install went easily enough, it seems the cam gear installation may not be. I've included a couple of pictures to help explain the dilemna that's cropped up.

With the crankshaft and the camshafts (using the BMW alignment tool) at the TDC position, I get good tension (no slack) in the chain between the crank sprocket & original intake cam gear in place. This is consistent with the installation instructions in both the BMW and Clymer repair manuals.

When I try to install the Rhinewest intake cam gear however, for similar tension in the chain I cannot get the dowel pin to line up with the locating guide on the cam flange (see pics RW5 & RW6). The only way I'm able to get the cam gear to align and seat in the locating guide is by moving it by one tooth clockwise, which then results in a significant bit of slack in the chain (see pics RW7 & RW8).

Am I missing something or is it possible I received a bum intake gear? Comparing the original and the Rhinewest gears (by pin location), it appears there's about a half tooth-pitch overlap. Is this correct?

Do the gears alter advance (in addition, perhaps, to valve overlap) in which case trying to get the dowel to align with the crankshaft at TDC position is not possible? If this is the case, is the slack in the chain then explainable - but would have to be taken up (by rotating the crank counterclockwise sufficiently) before the exhaust cam gear is installed?

Anyone encountered this?
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Last edited by macdonge; Dec 10th, 2006 at 3:22 pm.
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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old Dec 12th, 2006, 3:53 pm
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Rhine West Cam Kit

Did you read this post from Brentboshart and his experiernce with the kit?

The kit is complete. Only thing you might not have on hand is a special "tamper-proof" torx bit/wrench to open the computer module. You also need some silicone to re-seal the computer cover and rtv sealant when putting the valve cover back on.

Not sure how long it took, maybe 2hrs?? Fuel tank comes off to get at the computer. The sprocket exchange was easier than I thought. You have to be careful not to screw up the timing, I was really paranoid about that! When I put on the second sprocket (intake), I had to turn the camshaft ever so slightly for the key to drop in place on the sprocket (ie the new timing). The kit comes with excellent instructions.

With the gas tank and valve cover off, you might want to replace the air filter/fuel filter and check your valve clearances at the same time.

Again, I was really pleased with the difference, exceeded my expectations for sure.
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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 2006, 4:10 pm
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macdonge,

I've never installed the cam gear set that you're in the middle of but I'm trying to follow your discription of the problem. When it comes to timing chains/belts, crankshaft and camshaft gears on any engine, all of the gear alignment marks must be aligned when the chain is installed and correctly tensioned. Always check the timing mark alignment with all of the slack removed from the timing chain opposite the chain tensioner. I have seen some instances where one or both of the cam gear alignment marks are off just slightly but never more than a quarter to maybe half of tooth either way. If you run into a situation like this and you want to make sure that the cam timing is as close to correct as possible, move the cam gear a full tooth in the appropriate direction and recheck for alignment. The marks should be way off! If so, go back to best position and call it good. Once the timing chain and gears are installed. Rotate the engine at the crankshaft through two full revolutions and recheck the mark alignment. All should be good. If not, you know you have to try again.

I hope this information is helpful. Good luck!

John
06 CGM KGT (and former certified technician)
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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 2006, 8:39 pm Thread Starter
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Sorted out now

I've sorted this out through some discussion with Hank at Rhinewest. These guys were very prompt to respond to my query - which is a good thing! The thread is copied below for anyone interested. They could probably stand to revise their instructions to include the case where the cam chain has been off, e.g. to adjust valve clearances and/or replace the chain guide & tensioner wear strip, and highlight the fact that the BMW tool to secure the two camshafts at TDC can't be used.

The upshot is that the new gear serves to advance the intake cam (counter-clockwise) by about a half tooth-pitch versus where the original cam gear would be at TDC.

Hope this helps those who opt for this conversion. It won't be 'til spring and the snow melts before I get to test it out though.

Glen
_____________________________________
That looks good!

Hank Arriazola
Rhine West Performance

Glen MacDonald wrote:
Hank: Here's a pic of how things look at TDC after following your instructions (i.e. exhaust cam gear first). It looks good to me - exhaust cam where it would normally be with intake cam slightly advanced. I rotated the crank through several revolutions afterward and everything seems fine (no binding).

What do you think?

Thanks,

Glen
----- Original Message -----
From: Glen MacDonald
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: K1200RS Cam Gear


OK... so when you say "with the triangle lining up with the seam", I'm assuming it will be oriented just as shown in the attached picture, that is:
With the point of the triangle just past the 12 o'clock (CCW or counterclockwise) and,
Once rotated sufficiently for the pin to drop, the groove in the camshaft oriented just past the 9 o'clock position (again, rotating CCW)
Meanwhile, the exhaust gear, when installed, should have the groove in the camshaft oriented right on the 9 o'clock position.

Correct?
----- Original Message -----
From: Hank Arriazola
To: Glen MacDonald
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: K1200RS Cam Gear


Your correct. The only thing I do different is that I install the cam gear on the exhaust cam first (with the chain), torque it and lock it down with the tool. Then I do the intake cam. Place the sprocket into chain with the triangle lining up the seam. The rotate the cam counter-clockwise until the pin drops into the slot. Torque and double check everything.
I normally don't remove the front cover, so this might make things a little more challenging.

sincerely

Hank Arriazola
Rhine West Performance

Glen MacDonald wrote:
I think I'm with you Hank. What you're saying then is, with the crank at TDC position and the exhaust cam fixed, install the intake cam gear with the chain under tension (as in
pic RW5 attached) and rotate the intake cam counter-clockwise until the pin
drops into the groove (pic RW ).

Presumably then I just install the exhaust cam gear ensuring there isn't any
excessive slack between it and the intake gear.

Correct?

Thanks Hank.

Glen
----- Original Message ----- From: "Hank Arriazola" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 12:39 PM
Subject: K1200RS Cam Gear



Hello Glen, if you can provide me with a phone number as it might be
easier to explain. One thing is that you can not use the BMW tool as your
going to advance the intake side. You might use the exhaust side to hold
the cam in place at TDC and slightly angle out of the way for the intake
cam. Line up the cam gear with the seams on the head. Then rotate the
intake cam to where the pin fall in to the cam grove. The grove will be
advance if compared to the exhaust cam.

Hope this helps, if not I can walk you through this over the phone.

I can be reached at 210-826-0014.

sincerely
Hank Arriazola
Rhine West Performance
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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 2006, 8:04 am
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Can't wait for your "seat of the pants" dyno results. This is the only mod I'd consider on my 04 GT and I'm considering IT!!!

If you get outstanding results I may have to jump on it.

Keep us posted!

Best,

Gravity
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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 2007, 7:33 pm Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Rhinewest Chip & Timing Gear - results!

For any that might have been following this earlier thread, I had the bike out for the first ride of the season since doing the subject install. The "seat of the pants" dyno result is: Fantastic! As someone else said after having done this mod, you can feel it from the moment you let the clutch out and especially winding it out or rolling it on from any gear. Throttle response seems to be much sharper/cleaner and the annoying vibration once prevalent at about 4500 rpm is gone (though this latter may be tied more to the clutch replacement, done at the same time, and a better balanced disc/pressure plate/housing assembly).

Glen M.
'97 K12RS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravity
Can't wait for your "seat of the pants" dyno results. This is the only mod I'd consider on my 04 GT and I'm considering IT!!!

If you get outstanding results I may have to jump on it.

Keep us posted!

Best,

Gravity
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