K1200s filters on K1200r? - K-Bikes.com - Excellence in Motion
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 2013, 7:03 am Thread Starter
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K1200s filters on K1200r?

Hi,

As Evoluzione Race Air Filters are no longer available, can I use say 2 K&N filters for the K12S on my K12R?

Cheers
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 2013, 10:59 am
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If you look at the Evoluzione set up they supplied a plastic frame to hold the other filter which I would you think you'll have to mock one up,but my experience of introducing an extra filter on a bike means you'll need some engine mapping to go with,I've run bikes without and ran the risk of the engine running lean but it is a risk,and you'll end with a dip in the curve where there emissions are without such.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 2013, 11:48 am
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Many of us have opened the left side of the airbox on the k12r to accept two filters. best way to do this is removing the airbox and using a rotary cutting tool or hot knife. if you can remove the airbox, the cutting is easy.

then, i bought the stock snorkel for a s bike and cut it down to fit under the plastic. unfortunately, if i recall, the zfe computer is there as well and may need a little relocation. or not, i can't remember. however, it's completely doable.

as far as air flow, imo, the airbox is better balanced with two filter and it should have been this way from the factory (it is on the k12s and k13 bikes). The slight top end power deficet between the k12s and the k12r might have to do with this slightly decreased flow. (although IMO it's the VERY narrow size of the snorkel that is the limiting factor. Many people remove this as well)

either way, IMO and in my experience datalogging a/f ratios(I've got the pics of screen shots somewhere here), the stock computer is already too rich at the top end and the improved airflow is only going to improve that. In other words, no need to remap. and if you do, you want still less fuel on the top end...

Many people have this inaccurate idea of a/f levels. yes, there is a point where the engine will make best torque, but a motor will run on a HUGE range of a/f levels. And there is no magic a/f number. different engines will like different numbers even at different rpm ranges. Take a look at the stock BMW fuel map. at one time, there is a lean hole with a/f ratios 15:1 and more. Somehow that was accceptable to BMW. My point is that an exhuast change, a filter change, other "minor" changes like that will NOT likely need remapping unless the stock map is way off to begin with.

'06 K1200R- in pieces
'73 Honda CB500F- slow but fun.
'77 Yamaha XS 750 triple- kinda

Last edited by JCW; Mar 15th, 2013 at 12:06 pm.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 2013, 1:53 pm
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Well folk can only speak as they find,having been the same route with a R1100s with bigger induct/filter and open exhaust and exactly the same with an XT660X will they run with a stock map?,yes they will,but I always felt with both bikes they had the ablity to run better with a better fuel map.

In fact with my 1100s with no viable solution for 6 years(it took that long for a PC to arrive) I ran it as was,it was ok(ish),when I finally fitted a PC it transformed it exactly the same with the XT,in fact with the XT I used a cheapo fuelling mod,which improved performance but wouldn't stop the motor hunting,changing the fuelling mod for a PC cured it.

My K has just a DNA filter and an open pipe the Rexxer map has also tranformed the bike,hardly suprising as it's a custom map.

So the bottom line,do you need it or can you survive without? yes you can,with the addition of more air via either an extra filter or after market, can it be made much better with either a PC or Rexxer to have a much more balanced fuelling?? thats a yes as well.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 2013, 8:45 pm
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I don't think I disagree with you that this bike is in sore need for a remap. However, where I differ with you is that I believe the reason for that is the stock map tends toward lean fuel economy and emissions reduction while trading off driveability. At least for the K bike and my k1200r in particular, the need to remap is not the air filter and exhaust change.


Regardless, to address the original question, here's an old forum friend's write up about the filters and the airbox mod.

Hi, Joker!

http://jocke.selincite.com/bikes/evo...e-race-filters

'06 K1200R- in pieces
'73 Honda CB500F- slow but fun.
'77 Yamaha XS 750 triple- kinda
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 2013, 3:34 am
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Re my other post on Rexxer,if you do not have a filter and exhaust change they'll supply a different map it's as simple as that,it's more down to settling for make do or wanting it done right like I did,although in fairness the Rexxer is so much more than just matched fueling,it's a world away thank heavens.

If SS goes the dual filter route and decide's to have a Rexxer blown in tell e'm, it's important if you want the best out of the bike.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 2013, 12:23 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscanning
Re my other post on Rexxer,if you do not have a filter and exhaust change they'll supply a different map it's as simple as that,it's more down to settling for make do or wanting it done right like I did,although in fairness the Rexxer is so much more than just matched fueling,it's a world away thank heavens.

If SS goes the dual filter route and decide's to have a Rexxer blown in tell e'm, it's important if you want the best out of the bike.
Again, I find myself agreeing with what you say.

IF you want to remap or add a power commander, why would you not want to optimize for the filter and pipe.

I am just saying that it is not essential you do. I can show you dozens of people running filters and pipes without a power commander or reflashing the ecu that are fine with their bike. How many have suffered engine damage or severe driveability problems THAT DID NOT EXIST PRIOR to the switch, besides your experience with the remus??? Like I've said in the previous thread, stories of bikes suddenly going off due to a switch of the exhuast pipe and/or filter are very rare to non existent in my 6+ years on these forums.

'06 K1200R- in pieces
'73 Honda CB500F- slow but fun.
'77 Yamaha XS 750 triple- kinda
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 2013, 12:28 pm
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And to say that the rexxer is a world away is a bit exaggerated.

all it can do is adjust fueling and advance timing. It cannot do anything other than that because that's all the stock ecu does. If it can, please let me know what and how...

the Dimsport I have can do that as well (albeit in a more limited fashion). In fact, that air temp plug in device is an easy way to have the engine default to a richer fuel and more advanced timing map.

Not saying reflashing the ecu is bad. And it's great you've shared part of your experiences with it. It's probably the best way short of a custom rolled ecu. But you have a tendency to exaggerate...

Please, if I am wrong, educate me. But I have programmed my own stand alone ecu for a zx-11 converting the carbs to an individual throttle body and efi system. Not something pre made, but completely custom. I know a little about these things.

'06 K1200R- in pieces
'73 Honda CB500F- slow but fun.
'77 Yamaha XS 750 triple- kinda
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 2013, 5:19 pm
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Well strangely enough I started my ECU remap journey last september,when push comes to shove I'm not one for the net more a case of finding out first hand,it was an interesting and complex journey, Rexxer is still new, usual BS along the way and when putting questions face to face got some strange answers,but in all things motorcycle thats the norm anyway.

As luck would have it I'm able to use a tuner for cross reference,some things I liked and others down right not keen on,altimately it lead me to Rexxer of which I did a post on another thread,exaggerate!!! I don't think so I'm a born pessimist,I expected nothing and got a bike that now fuels like it should have from the factory,the extra performance in my book is a minor detail.

As for educating you,well strangly enough I haven't told the whole story,if you go the Rexxer route you'll find out and if you don't you won't,I'm not on here to educate anyone I tell of my experience and of putting my hand in my pocket,what people make of that is up to them.

One things for sure when I put my first question to my suspect and he told me piggy back would be dead in a couple of years,I was less than beleaving 7 months ago but I have absolutely no doubts now that he is/ was quite correct,when putting the same question to my reference asking 'Do you consider piggyback a bodge'(a qoute I'd had) he replied yes but it's been the only one in town for some years untill ecu re-flash and the game has changed.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 16th, 2013, 5:35 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCW
Like I've said in the previous thread, stories of bikes suddenly going off due to a switch of the exhuast pipe and/or filter are very rare to non existent in my 6+ years on these forums.
Difficult to reply as I don't understand 'going off'??,I assume your still on about me fitting and running 3 different pipes Remus/Laser/Akra,the Akra was the best and last and if either of the others has been I'd have said so,so there was no prospect of me going back to a pipe that didn't run so well.

As why that is/was too be honest I've no interest,anyone else want to pay for numerous pipes and give it a go I'm all ears,but for me the Akra was the better pipe and I sold the other two end of.
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