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  Topic Review (Newest First)
Sep 8th, 2019 1:32 pm
Kleinelars1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Currently in garage I have only a more recent K1200RS (2002) with integral-ABS. On these models the sensor are different as the speedo takes signal from the ABS wheel speed sensor (after conversion from ABS module). So I cannot take an exact reading of AC-voltage or resistance to compare with yours being 1st generation.

1) BMW does not give any specs for testing, BUT In general these speed sensor (on top of rear drive) will generate a small AC-voltage values that increases as you turn the wheel faster - something between 0.5 and 2 AC volts. So disconnect the sensor (under seat usually) and measure AC volts generated when you turn the wheel.

2) NEXT TEST is to measure resistance between the 2 wires when disconnected: again there is no specs from BMW but it should be roughly between 200 and 1000 Ohms. Any extreme OHMS reading is suspicious - in particular when twisting or moving the wires from end to end as you may have damaged wiring inside the black covering.

3) Did you check the continuity from harness side (under seat where the speed sensor is connected) toward the front harness near instrument for the YELLOW wire ?

4) FINALLY, another potential problem in these 1st generation K1200RS having ABS2 is the dented wheel inside the rear drive - not very common but still possible this would be your problem. You will see better if you drain the rear drive oil AND shine a flashlight thru the hole where the sensor is attached.

The problem that happens sometimes is the dented ring gear becomes detached or spins freely (see picture). You should be able to insert a long thin screwdriver to confirm that the dented ring gear is spinning with wheel AND that is is well attached AND that it is aligned with hole so that sensor comes down at correct position.
Hi John,

I checked your suggestions and measured max 0.05VAC and about 280 ohms. The ring was still fixed and spinning with the wheel. As I was typing my reply to you I went back to the garage to do a second check to be sure, and guess what: I got the pulse back. Not sure how or why. But hey, it worked! I measured the pulse on the sensor side of the connector.

So plugged the 2 connectors again and re-connected the Brown/red and yellow wire to the Speedometer. Tested-->No pulse!
disconnected the brown/red wire en measured between yellow and brown/red again-->Pulse was back.
I have the idea it has something to do with the fact that the New speedometer has 2 black wires, both ground and show continuity with each other.

could this be the source or am I overlooking something? so close to bringing this speedometer to live, but something is not right.
Do you have an idea?
Sep 8th, 2019 8:30 am
sailor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kleinelars1. View Post
Small update on the speedometer sensor:
I disconnected the connector of the speedometer sensor (Brown/yellow wire) and connected my Multimeter in order to meet continuity from a point as close as possible to the sensor itself.
Nothin happens, only when I lift the sensor up just a little (2mm) rapidly in order to remove it my multimeter beeps. But when spinning the rear-wheel I get no beep.
So only when changing the speedometer sensor rapidly and repeating it in vertical direction, I get a "beep".

Again tested the speedosensor by stroking it past a piece of metal and it directly beeps.
so yes it is working, but not when installed.

Driving me nuts;-) I can't be the oil filmp on the rotating part inside the cardan....right...?
Hope you have some suggestions.
Currently in garage I have only a more recent K1200RS (2002) with integral-ABS. On these models the sensor are different as the speedo takes signal from the ABS wheel speed sensor (after conversion from ABS module). So I cannot take an exact reading of AC-voltage or resistance to compare with yours being 1st generation.

1) BMW does not give any specs for testing, BUT In general these speed sensor (on top of rear drive) will generate a small AC-voltage values that increases as you turn the wheel faster - something between 0.5 and 2 AC volts. So disconnect the sensor (under seat usually) and measure AC volts generated when you turn the wheel.

2) NEXT TEST is to measure resistance between the 2 wires when disconnected: again there is no specs from BMW but it should be roughly between 200 and 1000 Ohms. Any extreme OHMS reading is suspicious - in particular when twisting or moving the wires from end to end as you may have damaged wiring inside the black covering.

3) Did you check the continuity from harness side (under seat where the speed sensor is connected) toward the front harness near instrument for the YELLOW wire ?

4) FINALLY, another potential problem in these 1st generation K1200RS having ABS2 is the dented wheel inside the rear drive - not very common but still possible this would be your problem. You will see better if you drain the rear drive oil AND shine a flashlight thru the hole where the sensor is attached.

The problem that happens sometimes is the dented ring gear becomes detached or spins freely (see picture). You should be able to insert a long thin screwdriver to confirm that the dented ring gear is spinning with wheel AND that is is well attached AND that it is aligned with hole so that sensor comes down at correct position.
Sep 8th, 2019 7:45 am
Kleinelars1. Small update on the speedometer sensor:
I disconnected the connector of the speedometer sensor (Brown/yellow wire) and connected my Multimeter in order to meet continuity from a point as close as possible to the sensor itself.
Nothin happens, only when I lift the sensor up just a little (2mm) rapidly in order to remove it my multimeter beeps. But when spinning the rear-wheel I get no beep.
So only when changing the speedometer sensor rapidly and repeating it in vertical direction, I get a "beep".

Again tested the speedosensor by stroking it past a piece of metal and it directly beeps.
so yes it is working, but not when installed.

Driving me nuts;-) I can't be the oil filmp on the rotating part inside the cardan....right...?
Hope you have some suggestions.
Sep 7th, 2019 2:50 pm
Kleinelars1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Keep in mind you are in unknown territory as very few have ever installed custom instruments on these K1200RS – although I have seen a few on older k100 / k75 converted into Café-Racer.

As I have the factory BMW electrical diagram on CD, I can give you a few hints. I will also include a diagram with wires position behind the original instrument cluster. This will give you a better idea where to find your wires in front harness.

For the SPEEDO:
1) Power coming from fuse-box is on a GREEN+BLACK wire. This is item 3 on diagram (right side).

2) There is a single color YELLOW wire for the speed signal that comes from the speed sensor located on top of the rear-drive (this is for 1st generation K1200RS like yours). On later K1200RS models (2002+ for USA) this signal would come from ABS module. This is item 7 on diagram.

3) of course there is also a ground BROWN wire to complete the circuit (from same speed sensor on rear-drive). This is item 5.

4) There is also a BLUE+GREEN wire that is used to send back speedo signal to the “smart” self-cancelling Flasher Relay (located with other relays).


FOR the RPM (tachometer):
- Power coming from fuse-box is on a GREEN+BLACK wire. This is item 3 on diagram (left side).

- There is a single color BLACK wire for the RPM signal that comes from the Motronic EFI unit (origin is pin 35 on Motronic connector). This is item 2 on diagram. Note that the same pin 35 also sends a wire to the Coil pack.

- of course there is also a ground BROWN wire to complete the circuit . This is item 1 on diagram.
Thanks John, Managed to get the RPM tachometer connected properly now.

Just still having trouble getting the T&T digital speedometer (10034532) working. I know you need to visualize all this, hope I don't confuse you now;
I connected the T&T speedometer according the installation instruction.
I have a yellow and brown wire coming from the speed sensor going to the white terminal connector on the engine RH side.
On the output side of that connector terminal a yellow wire and a BROWN/RED (surprised) run out of it.
So just to test the sensor and wires I took my multimeter and checked for continuity between Yellow and Brown/red just to ensure these are the wires from the Speedsensor. At first no continuity, but when I removed the Speedsensor and put the magnet to earth I got continuity. So I am sure these are the wires from the speedometer, but strange that I did not get continuite when spinning the rear wheel.

I disconnected the Brown/red wire from the wiring of the new T&T speedometer and started connecting and disconnecting them fast (few times a second(. Surprisingly I noticed the T&T speedometer registering these pulses on the little digital screen.

Strange thing is that I do not get any pulses when the speedsensor is installed.

Also strange is the fact that the new T&T speedometer has 2 black wires for earth. and a Orange and Red wire both for +.

Let's see if I can explain in a diagram:
Motor wires ------- Installation manual speedometer
Green/Black ------- Orange +
Brown (random earth wire) ------ Black (earth)
Yellow ------ Green (Signal)
12V power supply cable connected to ignition switch------ Red wire +
Brown/Red ------- Black (earth)

So I think I've connected it correctly, but I do not read the pulses from the Speedometer.
Can you think of anything that I am doing wrong?
Sep 6th, 2019 8:21 am
sailor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kleinelars1. View Post
Hi John and all other readers;-)

...
....

On the motor itself I have the same three wires, but also a Purple/white cable, but I am not sure if that one is for the RPM gauge or the motor temperature gauge on the instrument panel.
...
....
This VIOLET+WHITE wire is the signal going to engine temp gauge. It comes from coolant temp sensor located in from lower part of engine (under water pump). This would be item 20 on diagram from my previous post.

Note that BMW does not use the term "purple", but they use the term "violet" in their wiring.
Sep 6th, 2019 8:08 am
sailor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kleinelars1. View Post
Hi John and all other readers;-)

Well, finally back at home last wednesday after a couple of days in Germany for work.
The wiring starts to come together. Just before I left I finished the rear light and flasher wiring. Had them already working but still needed to connect them properly incl the resistors and run the wiring, so finished that last night.

I still have 2 issue's
1) RPM guage
For the RPM gauge I still have some unclearity, as it has 3 wires come out of it for 3 inches where they are cut, but I do not know where to connect them to:
Green/black
Brown
Black

On the motor itself I have the same three wires, but also a Purple/white cable, but I am not sure if that one is for the RPM gauge or the motor temperature gauge on the instrument panel.

2) Speedo gauge aftermarket
This new meter is mounted inside the headlight and contains the following wires:
Blac 2X
Orange
Green
Red
White and black with connector to wheel magnet.
...
.....

Thanks in advance!

Keep in mind you are in unknown territory as very few have ever installed custom instruments on these K1200RS – although I have seen a few on older k100 / k75 converted into Café-Racer.

As I have the factory BMW electrical diagram on CD, I can give you a few hints. I will also include a diagram with wires position behind the original instrument cluster. This will give you a better idea where to find your wires in front harness.

For the SPEEDO:
1) Power coming from fuse-box is on a GREEN+BLACK wire. This is item 3 on diagram (right side).

2) There is a single color YELLOW wire for the speed signal that comes from the speed sensor located on top of the rear-drive (this is for 1st generation K1200RS like yours). On later K1200RS models (2002+ for USA) this signal would come from ABS module. This is item 7 on diagram.

3) of course there is also a ground BROWN wire to complete the circuit (from same speed sensor on rear-drive). This is item 5.

4) There is also a BLUE+GREEN wire that is used to send back speedo signal to the “smart” self-cancelling Flasher Relay (located with other relays).


FOR the RPM (tachometer):
- Power coming from fuse-box is on a GREEN+BLACK wire. This is item 3 on diagram (left side).

- There is a single color BLACK wire for the RPM signal that comes from the Motronic EFI unit (origin is pin 35 on Motronic connector). This is item 2 on diagram. Note that the same pin 35 also sends a wire to the Coil pack.

- of course there is also a ground BROWN wire to complete the circuit . This is item 1 on diagram.
Sep 6th, 2019 1:29 am
Kleinelars1. Hi John and all other readers;-)

Well, finally back at home last wednesday after a couple of days in Germany for work.
The wiring starts to come together. Just before I left I finished the rear light and flasher wiring. Had them already working but still needed to connect them properly incl the resistors and run the wiring, so finished that last night.

Tonight I hope to sort out the headlight wiring (aftermarket), speedo(aftermarket) and rpm gauge (original).

I still have 2 issue's
1) RPM guage
For the RPM gauge I still have some unclearity, as it has 3 wires come out of it for 3 inches where they are cut, but I do not know where to connect them to:
Green/black
Brown
Black

On the motor itself I have the same three wires, but also a Purple/white cable, but I am not sure if that one is for the RPM gauge or the motor temperature gauge on the instrument panel.

2) Speedo gauge aftermarket
This new meter is mounted inside the headlight and contains the following wires:
Blac 2X
Orange
Green
Red
White and black with connector to wheel magnet.

I think the original cables where:
yellow
Brown/red
Blue/green
brown
Green/black

So I hope you can assist in pointing out which wires from the original cable loom I equire, or what purpose the have.

Thanks in advance!
Aug 29th, 2019 9:49 am
Kleinelars1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Given these test results and other symptoms, I do not see any other option than either of these 3 options:

(1) repair the gear indicator sensor (not always easy). As shown in your earlier post of August 23rd, you have already split the unit in 2 pieces. These are normally not easy to repair - they are sold as a single unit by BMW (no parts). It is possible in some cases, to clean the contacts inside and re-assembly with some glue. Although I NEVER had a need to this , but I recall some old post on an R1150 forums many years ago.

OR

(2) buy a new gear indicator sensor. BMW part number "23 14 2 333 154" ($US 150 or about 132 Euros). HOWEVER, given the damage and modifications done at your main harness AND to the dash / instruments gear indicator LCD, I would hesitate to spend this kind of money for a new part. Its main purpose it not only to show green neutral light (you can make jumper for this) but to show proper gear number currently engaged in LCD display.

OR

(3) buy a USED gear indicator sensor on EBAY. Very easy to find as the same switch/sensor was also used on all R1150 models (R1150GS, R1150RT ,,,) and also on K1200LT. Of course you run the risk to get a defective one, but they are often selling for 30% of price of new, so one could buy another used one and still be ahead.

In 5 minutes,I found 3 used one on EBAY located in Europe , closer to your side of the Atlantic:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEAR-POSITI...1&isGTR=1#shId


https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-K-1200L...cAAOSw3qVcmQMJ


https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-K1200-L....c100005.m1851

Thans John, I will get a second hand used switch and see if that works. Good to know a variety of models has the same switch.

I want to remove the wires for the heated grips as I will not be using those and it saves me some work on the wiring.
Can you point out which wires between the grips and the electrical junction relay box on the RH side of the motor.

Thanks in advance!
Aug 28th, 2019 6:22 pm
sailor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kleinelars1. View Post
Hi John, it has been a couple of days, but just re-checked al Options ABC:
A Correct Jumping pin 1 and 5 on the Harness female side resulted in Neutral light ON and i am able te get Sparks on the plugs.

B Correct. No continuity between pin 1 and 5 on male side of the connector

C Correct again;-) plugging the connector does not result on Neutral light on.

Yes, I have 3 yellow wires that run from the neutral switch, to male connector, to female connector the the electrical junction relay box. they've been cut approx 1 inch after going from relay to dash. so there is no cable from relay to dash left.

Last additional finding was the slip contact when taking the cap of the neutral switch, but did not know how to proceed or what to measure.

Hope you have a option D left;-)
Given these test results and other symptoms, I do not see any other option than either of these 3 options:

(1) repair the gear indicator sensor (not always easy). As shown in your earlier post of August 23rd, you have already split the unit in 2 pieces. These are normally not easy to repair - they are sold as a single unit by BMW (no parts). It is possible in some cases, to clean the contacts inside and re-assembly with some glue. Although I NEVER had a need to this , but I recall some old post on an R1150 forums many years ago.

OR

(2) buy a new gear indicator sensor. BMW part number "23 14 2 333 154" ($US 150 or about 132 Euros). HOWEVER, given the damage and modifications done at your main harness AND to the dash / instruments gear indicator LCD, I would hesitate to spend this kind of money for a new part. Its main purpose it not only to show green neutral light (you can make jumper for this) but to show proper gear number currently engaged in LCD display.

OR

(3) buy a USED gear indicator sensor on EBAY. Very easy to find as the same switch/sensor was also used on all R1150 models (R1150GS, R1150RT ,,,) and also on K1200LT. Of course you run the risk to get a defective one, but they are often selling for 30% of price of new, so one could buy another used one and still be ahead.

In 5 minutes,I found 3 used one on EBAY located in Europe , closer to your side of the Atlantic:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEAR-POSITI...1&isGTR=1#shId


https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-K-1200L...cAAOSw3qVcmQMJ


https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-K1200-L....c100005.m1851
Aug 28th, 2019 12:07 pm
Kleinelars1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
During last few posts, there seems to be a difficulty to identify the remaining problem for this Neutral switch.

So far, I understood the following:
A) when you jumped Pins 1 and 5 on the harness side (female), you had neutral signal (either on dash AND/OR to allow starter and ignition). So we can assume these 2 wires are working: BROWN being the ground on Pin 1 and BROWN+VIOLET being the signal for the dash green neutral lamp on Pin 5
B) when you tested the continuity on the Neutral Switch side (male), you had no continuity between Pins 1 and 5 when gearbox was in Neutral. So we can assume this switch is defective or wiring is damaged between connector and switch (behind gearbox)

C) Later, you reported that when you plugged the switch side (male) into the harness side, there is no proper signal when Gearbox is in Neutral. Based on previous 2 checks above (A and B) of course we cannot expect any other conclusion than this... until Neutral switch is replaced or repaired.

ALSO, you reported that the 3 Yellow wires coming out of the Neutral switch are damaged or cut along the harness (in electrical junction Relay box). These 3 wires (from Pins 2, 3 , 4) are used only to calculate / show proper gear number on digital display. They go from Neutral switch to a connector in Relay box, then to the dash / instruments. These 3 Yellow wires should not affect starting or ignition AS-LONG-AS we have neutral signal on pin 1 and 5.

Please clarify if you still have some questions ..OR.. if I am confused with previous findings reported here ;-)
Hi John, it has been a couple of days, but just re-checked al Options ABC:
A Correct Jumping pin 1 and 5 on the Harness female side resulted in Neutral light ON and i am able te get Sparks on the plugs.

B Correct. No continuity between pin 1 and 5 on male side of the connector

C Correct again;-) plugging the connector does not result on Neutral light on.

Yes, I have 3 yellow wires that run from the neutral switch, to male connector, to female connector the the electrical junction relay box. they've been cut approx 1 inch after going from relay to dash. so there is no cable from relay to dash left.

Last additional finding was the slip contact when taking the cap of the neutral switch, but did not know how to proceed or what to measure.

Hope you have a option D left;-)
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