BMW K1200, K1300, and K1600 Forum banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Ah, the ever-popular clutch.

My new-to-me bike is seeping fluid from the engine/transmission joint. I have not positively identified it, but given that it's 17 years old, I plan to pull it apart and replace the rear main seal and O-ring and the transmission input and output seals, as well as the final drive input seal for good measure. I've read a fair bit about the job, which looks to be involved by straightforward - just lots and lots of things to remove to get the transmission out.

My question is this: Which parts should I plan to replace outright, and which should I inspect and decide whether to replace once I've taken it all apart? I'd rather have all the spare parts on hand before I take it apart, but if there are parts to inspect and decide to replace or reuse depending on their condition, I'll have to order those after the bike's already apart. I'll do the clutch friction plate (#5 on the diagram) in any case, since I think there's a high probability that it's gotten oily. What about the diaphragm spring (#3), pressure plate (#4) or housing cover (#6). I've looked at a diagram at this site, but if it's dealer prices I'll probably just order them from my local dealer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
593 Posts
Ah, the ever-popular clutch.

My new-to-me bike is seeping fluid from the engine/transmission joint. I have not positively identified it, but given that it's 17 years old, I plan to pull it apart and replace the rear main seal and O-ring and the transmission input and output seals, as well as the final drive input seal for good measure. I've read a fair bit about the job, which looks to be involved by straightforward - just lots and lots of things to remove to get the transmission out.

My question is this: Which parts should I plan to replace outright, and which should I inspect and decide whether to replace once I've taken it all apart? I'd rather have all the spare parts on hand before I take it apart, but if there are parts to inspect and decide to replace or reuse depending on their condition, I'll have to order those after the bike's already apart. I'll do the clutch friction plate (#5 on the diagram) in any case, since I think there's a high probability that it's gotten oily. What about the diaphragm spring (#3), pressure plate (#4) or housing cover (#6). I've looked at a diagram at this site, but if it's dealer prices I'll probably just order them from my local dealer.
Given everythig I have read on 3 different K1200RS-GT-LT forums in last 18 years, I am sure you will get many opinions - some of them contradictory ;-)

My take on this is based on doing the job twice (on 2 different K1200RS) and having followed the ups and downs of many who have been there and asked for help on forums:
1) A new fiction plate is ALWAYS needed if any oil on it -OR- if material is past half-way to min specs (see CLYMER)

2) The metal pressure plate and metal cover plate need to be changed if either: overheat / bluing sign , deep scratches or marks / wrapage or dishing measured with straight edge across (no specs published but anything above 0.005 inch is potentially a problem). See photo at end of post...

3) Diaphragm spring is not needed unlee you have a ton of miles OR something appear damaged on inspection (not common)

4) The hydraulic clutch slave is a weak point and has a tendency to leak (or seized the trust bearing) over time from 30,000 miles to 60,000 miles. Of course stop-go traffic is much harder on the trust bearing. It is fairly xpensive part but do you really want to go back there in 1 year or 2? I always replace unless I know this one was done recently.

5) The O-ring of the main clutch output shaft is a must of course, HOWEVER replacing all seals unless there is proof they have leaked is sometimes overdone. The only 2 exceptions are the main engine output shaft seal (behind clutch) AND the Seal behind the clutch slave (not easy to apply proper depth on install).

6) Of course you also need new parts for: 6 bolts for pressure cover AND the large nut for clutch hub (item 7 and 8 in your diagram link). It is well documented in shop manual these fasteners are one-time use only.

7) if bike has 50,000 miles or more, it is a good idea to open starter to clean internals and check brushes wear (while engine is lowered). Alternator is not an issue unless you have a lot of mileage.

8) You will need to also inspect the paralever small bearings for damage to decide if you need these. They can last a very long time when handled and greased properly - unfortunatly many have overtorqued and damaged these in the past. In such case they become notchy - a bit of ok but not too much.

ABOUT GETTING PARTS: all of the cluth plates (friction , pressure and cover) are made by SACHS for BMW and are available from various aftremarket resellers at much lower price (you get the same part but not in a BMW box).

During last 10 years I have ordered from either: Moto-bins or Motorworks in UK with very good prices - your price will be the one marked "Ex. VAT" as you do not to pay this value-added-tax when buying from outside UK. They will sell stuff they get from the OEM manufacturers as much as they can (like clutch parts from SACHS). Their service has been good and the shipping cost to North-America very reasonable.

Both have been in business for a fairly long time and have a good reputation on most forums. I only order from BMW dealer for something I cannot get from these 2 in UK (as they sell mainly the fast moving / most common wear parts).
You will need to compare each case with parts fiche in USA prices, but in my experience all the expensive parts are always 20% to 35% less. You easily pay the added shipping cost for any order above $120 roughly.



28288
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Concur with Sailor, having done mine a year ago with parts from Motorworks. The dollar has dropped in value since then, so parts will cost a bit more from UK than they did a year ago, but still cheap compared to US prices. Also, you will be removing the tank, I would include a new fuel+air filter, metal fuel disconnects if you don't already have them and plan to replace the O rings on the injectors, and throttle bodies. TB's will also need some special attention, just ask about that when you're ready. And, there is a hard-to-get-to plastic crankcase ventilation hose that sits on top of the engine that has a propensity to crack (vacuum leak) over time. If you're handy, they can be fabricated out of pex or copper, or just add a new one to the shopping list. Might also be a good time to have injectors cleaned if you have a lot of miles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for all the pointers. I'm surprised to see that the prices from the UK are enough better to make the shipping worthwhile - that's not something I would have thought to check.

So the next question is, OEM or aftermarket oil-resistant clutch? Is there any downside to the oil-resistant one?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
593 Posts
Thanks for all the pointers. I'm surprised to see that the prices from the UK are enough better to make the shipping worthwhile - that's not something I would have thought to check.

So the next question is, OEM or aftermarket oil-resistant clutch? Is there any downside to the oil-resistant one?
In my mind, these "so-called" Oil-Resistant clutch plate do not add enough protection to justify added cost - at least not for a road bike like a K1200RS-GT-LT. We are also lacking tangible long term data on these as most owners and dealers install the regular friction plate. SACHS does not make any Oil-resistant friction plate - they are made by aftermarket suppliers like SIEBENROCK and NEWFREN (sold thru various resellers / dealers).

LET ME EXPLAIN:
Originally, it was mainly designed (and sold ) to R1200GS type of riders doing very long "around the world" trip. If you get oil into the clutch dry area , the trip has to be continued until you can reach a country / city where the job can be done. At least the clutch would not slip and you could continue the trip for days or weeks.

It is irrelevant wether you ride a K1200RS-GT or a R1150/R1200GS, you will need to eventually stop the cause of the oil leak. If causes a mess under engine, and in some case as I have seen on mine, some dops of oil will fly into rear wheel tire at highway speed (if / when the leak increases over time). No oil-resistant clutch plate will save you from eventually "sooner-or-later" do the clutch job again in case of main-seal leak , o-ring leak or the slave cylinder leak.

So unless you are doing as lot of VERY LONG DISTANCE riding with your road bike, all you need is to get back home. In general it will slip only on hard acceleration in 5th or 6th and you will have time to notice it before it gets really bad.

In addition there ARE ALWAYS many early hints / clues visible at the clutch-engine OR clutch-transmission junction before the clutch starts to slip really bad. So this where you get going on repair before starting another long trip.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Honey Badger

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
That helps a lot. I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge and experience!

Got to ride the bike for the first time today. There was too much ice on the roads in Chicago when I bought it for me to be willing to get on it, but it was almost 60F here today. At this point, despite the evidence of oil leakage, the clutch gave no evidence of slipping. I didn't get on it particularly hard, but it's at least a good sign.

In any event, I'll probably just order the entire kit. I plan to stack a lot of miles on this bike, and the whole kit is under $500 USD. With seals and other odds and ends I'll end up ordering almost twice that much stuff. But then again, I didn't buy a BMW based on their reputation for inexpensive parts. :D

Then it'll be off to do front and rear shocks - but that's a whole 'nother conversation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
593 Posts
That helps a lot. I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge and experience!
...
.....

Then it'll be off to do front and rear shocks - but that's a whole 'nother conversation.
I also appreciate when forum members give feedback on our effort to share - like you are doing now. Thanks!

In last 20 years, I have visited many forums (motorcycles , electronics ...) and many YouTube pages on various HowTo subjects. What I often see is less than 30% actually say a genuine thank you. Even better when they come back later to share their experience / feedback if the solution was helpfull for them.

Some have the guts to make unfounded negative comments. These negative people do not contributed with any other alternative effort - or offer anything better than what has been posted. Their only mode of operation is to bring down the effort of others ;-)
 
  • Like
Reactions: soma76

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Well, hey! That rear shock will just be hanging by a bolt or 2 when you get the tranny out. Might as well do it then🤣🤣😂.

Also, a lot of the orings and oil seals you will use are available for cheap stateside (in superior materials like viton) from oringsandmore.com.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Well, hey! That rear shock will just be hanging by a bolt or 2 when you get the tranny out. Might as well do it then🤣🤣😂.

Also, a lot of the orings and oil seals you will use are available for cheap stateside (in superior materials like viton) from oringsandmore.com.
The trick is finding the right sizes - those aren't usually published. AFAIK, it's mainly the O-ring at the back of the crankshaft that degrades and should be Viton - are there other problem seals or O-rings that I really need to consider upgrading?

I probably will go ahead and do the shocks while I've got it apart. The front is especially bad - it's leaking oil, which leads me to wonder if it's got any nitrogen left in it. The rear isn't leaking, but it's pretty sacked out. It's a lot to spend all at once - fortunately my wife is very, very understanding (and it helps that I promised her a new car in a month or two!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,875 Posts
The BMW transmission seals are Kaco FKMs.Originals were black but were FKM, newer updated ones are brownish but still made by Kaco out of FKM.

Rear main seal is Teflon.I don't know why I replaced mine at 40K (kms), it wasn't leaking? Replacement is now at ~265,000kms.
 

·
Registered
2009 K1300S, 2017 S1000R
Joined
·
529 Posts
If you want a free Viton 19x4 mm O-ring, send my your address (private conversation) and I'll mail you one. Also the below PDF may have some tips for you in your project. I too wonder the merit of changing the main rear seal if it is not leaking. A 50$ part and not that easy to do. It is almost always the 19mm oring that is the bad guy.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
My main thought in wanting to replace the seals is that they're now 17 years old, and I worry about seals getting hard with age. I've just read through a couple of papers on aging of HNBR vs FKM, though, and at least in accelerated age testing the FKM held up well. Still, it's only $27 from Motorworks, and I've generally had little trouble replacing them on other vehicles (which were admittedly larger than this - I did one last summer on my son's Ranger when we swapped the failed auto transmission.) I'll have the seal on hand in case I need it, and maybe what I should do is inspect it before I just pull it out.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top