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Discussion Starter #1
I would like to receive information from all K1200s owners with model years 05' & 06' that have currently or had previous transmission problems. I want to hear from the owners only and not hearsay please. I would like to know the problems, how many times the bike was placed in the shop, dealers contact information & responses, fixes implemented (if any), was the work covered under warranty, and if BMW replaced the entire transmission. Your responses should be detailed to the best of your knowledge. You can send a private PM if you wish.

Thank you in advance.

Steve
 

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06 KS No trans problems. Clunky engagement of 1,2nd and a little 3rd. I Did have a engine noise-loose oil pump chain adjustment and clutch basket was replaced. 99 percent better. 9k miles. no driveability, handling or brake concerns. In once fixed once- Dealer, Hansens, was great.
 

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My '06 K1200S 2nd gear transmission failure described in this thread: http://www.k-bikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7010&page=1&pp=10 Entire transmission replaced under warranty at about 8,000 miles. Bike was in the shop twice for a total period of about 5 weeks until it was fixed. Like your situation, they weren't highly motivated to undertake drastic surgery until they could reproduce the problem on demand. The general initial response was "no ECU error codes = no problem".

I just kept driving it, the problem got gradually worse and more consistent until they could reproduce it. By that time the gearbox had gross damage, as described in the above thread. However it's likely the only solution was total replacement anyway, even if undertaken earlier.

My main concern is the dealer had no apparent guidance, technical bulletins from BMWNA, and no way to query an incident database for number of reported failures matching this description. Each dealer service manager is essentially an island to themselves with only tenuous verbal support from the factory. For each problem like this, each dealer service manager is starting from scratch, having no outside pooled knowledge except by informal phone contacts with other dealers and a tenuous, difficult-to-reach phone contact at BMWNA. There is no technical bulletin on the transmission problems, so no help there.

There should have an incident database all dealer service managers can access which is updated daily that shows developing problems and trends. The service manager should also have quick turnaround email access to the highest levels of BMW technical support.

This isn't an individual dealer problem, although some dealers are more responsive than others. It's a Motorrad corporate problem of inadequate support tools for the dealer network, and "too little too late" corrective steps.

Furthermore, once a major problem like this develops, BMW Motorrad needs to step up to the bar and totally resolve it.

An better example of how to handle it is the BMW car division's handling of the e46 M3 engine problem where many owners had spun bearings that required total engine replacement. BMW fixed the problems including all parts and labor, whether the original warranty was in effect or not, PLUS extended the e46 M3 warranty to 6 years and 100,000 miles, whether the car experienced the problem or not.

Why would they do that? Because once a certain critical mass of failures happens, you reach a "tipping point". Technically sophisticated dissatisfied ex-customers become active evangelists against the company and its products. This extends long after they no longer own the products.

To avoid this, when you totally screw up as a manufacturer, it requires commensurate corrective measures.

On a product/mfg level, it should also entail specific steps to ensure it doesn't happen again. On support level, it should include improved support and troubleshooting tools to ensure more rapid, accurate and consistent problem isolation by the dealer service network.
 

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bbenn75820 said:
06 KS No trans problems. Clunky engagement of 1,2nd and a little 3rd...
Suppose the posting of this thread is to see how others handled their broken transmissions, with you having similar woes. I assume this is the case. FWIW, would just add to the quote above. Zero tranny issues with my '05 except for some 1st and 2nd gear clunkiness at lower RPMs. I have other late model BMW's and the clunkiness is not a KS "feature" alone. Web sites are a magnet for "issues" of all kinds, all kinds of makes. There is a vast majority not having any problems.
 

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stevek1200s said:
I would like to receive information from all K1200s owners with model years 05' & 06' that have currently or had previous transmission problems. I want to hear from the owners only and not hearsay please. I would like to know the problems, how many times the bike was placed in the shop, dealers contact information & responses, fixes implemented (if any), was the work covered under warranty, and if BMW replaced the entire transmission. Your responses should be detailed to the best of your knowledge. You can send a private PM if you wish.

Thank you in advance.

Steve
Ok, just curious...why are you asking for this information? There are a number of posts here and elsewhere about K1200R transmission failures as well. "I would like to receive..." Ok, fine. What your goal with all of this?

Don't get me wrong, there may be a serious issue with the transmission. If so, what are your concerns at this point? Sharing is a two-way street...



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'05 K1200s

Gentlemen:

Here is the thread I started a couple of days ago:


I'm about 700 miles past my 6K service and I've noticed that when I shift (especially to descending gears) that it feels "notchy".....almost as if it was a two stage process. Until now, other than the clunk in the lower gears, the shifting has been precise. Given the recency of the oil change suggests that I'm encountering an unusual wear problem.

Have any of you experienced something similar?

I spoke to my dealer about this observation. Their response indicated that similar observations have been made but they have had no transmission problems. The dealer thought that most of these observations emanated from K1200 owners that have had experience with other brands like Yamaha, etc. whereby they experienced much smoother shifting transmissions. Not a very encouraging thought when you consider that the bike costs 50+% more than a R 1.
 

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stevek1200s said:
I would like to receive information from all K1200s owners with model years 05' & 06' that have currently or had previous transmission problems. I want to hear from the owners only and not hearsay please. I would like to know the problems, how many times the bike was placed in the shop, dealers contact information & responses, fixes implemented (if any), was the work covered under warranty, and if BMW replaced the entire transmission. Your responses should be detailed to the best of your knowledge. You can send a private PM if you wish.

Thank you in advance.

Steve
2005 K1200S, 8000 miles - no problems whatsoever.
2006 K1200S (hers), 4800 miles - no problems whatsoever.
2006 K1200GT, 9300 miles - no problems whatsoever.

My wife babies her S and I am much harder on mine.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks to all that have responded. Yes, I have been reviewing previous post on this site and three other sites. I've printed some of them out and placed in my file. The reason for this post is that I'm having issues, some of them are very similar to others with 2nd and 3rd gear, a problem with a false neutral between 5th & 6th (upshifting or downshifting), and now dropped out of 6th gear back into 5th gear on it's own. I've had this problem basically all year long. The bike has been in the shop several times, and it does not happen when the tech rides it. BMW NA will not authorize a inspection of the gear box & clutch assembly after several request. I have documented my trans problems in writing to the dealer (on each event), but it seems my hands and the Dealers hands are tied. If I have some information from other K1200S owners, this may help me in solving the trans problems. Also, BMW NA has previously stated to the Dealer that they are not aware of any trans problems, and the problem is the rider. Well, that's not good customer service now is it? I patiently have worked with the Dealer all year long, provided written documentation in detail on at least three events, and I just want the bike to be inspected and repaired. This is not a heavily populated problem. But to those of us that are experiencing these trans/clutch related problems, we would like to have them resolved in a business like manner. I'm happy for those that are not having these issues, but please don't be critical to those small number of us that are. We just want our bikes to perform, mechanically free of defects, like yours. Another reason for the information that I have requested, is that maybe the dealers (dealer tech's) can communicate with each other in resolving the problem. Nothing counts more than first hand experience, so if these techs can talk to other tech's that have been inside the transmissions & made repairs, I may get this resolved in a reasonable timeframe.

Thanks.
 

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stevek1200s said:
...problem with a false neutral between 5th & 6th (upshifting or downshifting), and now dropped out of 6th gear back into 5th gear on it's own. I've had this problem basically all year long. The bike has been in the shop several times, and it does not happen when the tech rides it. BMW NA will not authorize a inspection of the gear box & clutch assembly after several request...maybe the dealers (dealer tech's) can communicate with each other in resolving the problem. Nothing counts more than first hand experience, so if these techs can talk to other tech's that have been inside the transmissions & made repairs, I may get this resolved in a reasonable timeframe...
Your problem has all the hallmarks of a difficult issue: (1) relatively infrequent (2) intermittent problem, (3) can't be reproduced on demand (4) Likely of mechanical nature, so not sensed or recorded by ECU sensors (5) expensive to investigate further (requires tranny teardown).

It's possible your problem is related to the spate of transmission problems several owners have experienced. Is it a precursor to an imminent more complete failure? You're obviously worried about that, and with some justification.

However -- unless BMW sends a tech bulletin saying (in essence) "we have some KS/KR transmission problems, customers reporting xyz symptoms should have their transmissions inspected or replaced", OR unless the symptoms become more reproducible, you're stuck.

Re BMW techs talking to other techs, they have no formal, approved method for that, which IMO is a problem. There's no intra-company discussion forum or bulletin board for dealer service techs (or managers) to share expertise. As stated previously there's also no method for service managers to query a database of problem report incidents to see how many times a certain symptom has been reported.

To a significant degree, each time a symptom is reported to a Motorrad service dept, it's the first time they've heard it. No matter how many times and how many customers have encountered it, unless there's a tech bulletin, it's as if your problem is the first one (from the dealer service dept standpoint). BMW does not provide them the information tools needed for anything else.

BMW probably reads the posts here, maybe some techs do on their own time. In that sense your reporting the problem might in some way help.

If it's any consolation, transmission problems often get progressively worse. In time it may get sufficiently reproducible for your dealer to take further action. I know in that iterim period it's uncomfortable and frustrating.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks to all that replied either public or pm. I met with 2 corporate BMW NA rep.'s yesterday at my local dealer. I was impressed with their attitudes, body language, verbal tone, and a concern to get to the bottom of this transmission problem. My dealer, where I purchased new and have all work/ maintenance performed, was also present during these discussions with BMWNA. The corporate rep had ALL my emails that I had sent to the dealer, and had reviewed each one prior to meeting me. After roughly 20 minutes of professional conversions, they put on their riding gear and took the bike out for a test ride. Well, the gremlin's/ghost finally made their presents known. I was convinced they do not play well with others (only with me), but they decided to come out and play. The end result is I will be getting a new transmission, complete assembly, installed on the bike. The problematic one will be sent back to Germany for investigation. Finally guys, I was NOT mis-shifting 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and 6th. I want to again comment that the BMW NA corporate rep.'s were great to talk to, shown great concern, asked very detailed questions, and I did not once feel as if I was not important to them. They have changed my perspective, as frustrating as this was all through the riding season, they have restored my faith. The dealer, well it's nice to continue my great relationship with them. They did not leave me hanging out there by myself, and quite impressed that they had sent every single one of my emails to BMWNA, because those corporate guys had them ALL in hand.
Joema, I'm calling you out to give ya a much appreciated thank you for all of your information and correspondence to me. For the one's not called out here, thank you too. I would suggest to everyone here that you need to keep accurate records of events detailing as much information as possible ( date, time, what happened, speed, rpm's, what gear was the bike in, under easy/moderate/hard acceleration, braking, WELL you get the point here of what I'm trying to say. Send each one to your dealer, have patience, keep a business head on the shoulders, and it will all work out.
 

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A professional approach from all stakeholders with an apparently positive outcome. I trust these folks from BMW NA have been invited to share/monitor this forum.
 

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mine is in the shop since i had to retire due to winter getting here.
i was getting nutrals in 2 nd and 5 th ,in the middle of the powerband

stroker
 

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sorry to dig up an old thread but i have the opportunity to buy a 2005 k12r with only 1100K's on the clock. It's mint. My concern is that this bike is 8 years old and out of warranty. Should I walk away?
The bike has no gearbox issues and has only had a oil service as it has only done such low K's.
If I buy it and the gearbox goes bad what options do I have ?

Mark.
 

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There is no warranty when buying an 8-year old bike or for that matter any vehicle of that age, and you need to realize that if anything fails you will have to foot the bill yourself. If you are not prepared to accept that risk, then you should walk away.

That bike has probably not had any services apart from the very first 600 mile inspection, and you'll need to at least change the engine oil, the final drive oil and the brake fluid. The coolant should still be OK, even though BMW requires it to be changed every four years. But at least check it or have it checked. The one item that could cause expensive repairs would be the ABS modulator.

Depending on the conditions the bike was stored in and the number of times it has seen water from rain or washing, the brake fluid could be contaminated by water which will increase the risk of the ABS modulator failing, You'll need to change the brake fluid immediately and "exercise" the ABS to make sure it functions properly and circulates the new fluid. It would be a good move to change it again in six months and thereafter change it annually. But this still does not guarantee that the ABS modulator will never fail.

Also, after 8 years and again depending on the storage conditions, you will probably need to replace the tires.

As for other items that need attention, you'll be wise to install the cam jump guard and the upgraded cam chain tensioner. Doing this yourself will only cost you about $150.

If the battery is older than four years, it may also need replacement.

So, consider the cost of these items and the risk in buying an 8-year old bike, and weigh that against the price of the bike and the satisfaction of owning a great bike.
 

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2005 K1200s Transmission Replacement issue

Hello, I've had a K1200rs since new in 2000 65k+miles, and a K1200s since new in 2005 35k+.

Very interesting in what you think about the following:

My 05 K1200s is at that dealership right now needing a new transmission. They told me to purchased part number 23007726370 and ship it to them to install. That part number covers multiple years and models. Got it from RuberSideUp and it arrived last week. What they are telling me now is the master mechanic they have is telling them you cant mix and match the different models of that part number with different clutches, and you need to get a set of transmission and clutch because even thought its the same part number, there were issues with the production in those years and there is no guarantee that it will mate up with the clutches. Seriously, I know a lot of local mechanics and old riders that have never her this before. Has anyone ever herd this?
 

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The rest of the post...

They want me to return the transmission, unless they can send them the matching clutch, or get a refund and get a set from somewhere else, even though no one sells sets, they are only listed separably. They are seriously telling me there is some known issue with BMW were they shouldn't have made them the same part number. Any advise or even corroboration would be greatly appreciated. They are supposedly sending me an email explaining this further, which I will happily post. Its just insanity to me what they are saying. Thanks!
 

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Has anyone tried pulling out the transmission and taking a look? I have and I'm going to tear it down and inspect it. Its a winter project. Here you can see the wear on the aluminum shift selector drum for 2nd and 3rd. Aluminum drums are not meant to last. My bike is at 34000 miles. I have issues the 2nd and recently 3rd popping in and out of gear under load at 6500 rpm plus.
 

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Popping out of gear under load is due to the gear dogs wearing and slipping out of engagement. Normally 2nd and 5th. They are flat, not undercut by 3 degrees like the K13 tranny dogs. Also, the transmission suffers if clutchless shifting in play. There is a shop in Florida that rebuilds this transmission and cuts needed angles into the dogs. I seem to remember it was in the neighborhood of 3 grand. The only clutch match up problems I have heard of are the different oil pump drive systems between the K12 and the K13 era bikes. And these parts need to mesh with the back of the clutch basket. I suspect this is what your mechanic is talking about. The bikes are older now and these problems are coming to light. Problem is they are old and parts availability is a question and serious money is involved. The next question is, is the bike worth it or should you let it go. I know I would not sink big money into a K12S bike today. Go out and find a clean K13S and move on. I base these comments on 12 years of reading every K bike mechanical post on IBMW.com. And, owing both bike models. My K13S now has 120,000 miles and going for a ride today. Of course I have put plenty of parts into it and lots of maintenance that I do myself. I just gave away a K12 transmission to a Vancouver resident who is working on his K12 bike.
Call:
Francis Jordan
203-740-1270 ext. 1219
[email protected]
This is the parts guy at MAX bmw who is incharge of answering fitment problems. I think all parts there are 20% off at the moment.
 
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