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I hesitate to post this, as I'm dealing with second hand information. However, I think we all need to be aware of this ...

Saturday, I was visiting with another '06 k1200GT owner at my local dealer's place prior to the club meeting. He informed me that his new GT had been in the repair shop for a week due to a failed rear drive. He noticed no symptoms, but the service department found it when he brought his bike in to do the 7.0 update. He says that he has about one thousand miles on the bike. He said that the rear wheel showed barely visible movement when rocked, but the mechanic was adamant that it be replaced. However, there were no rear drives for the GT in the US, so he's waiting for parts from Germany. He claimed there was no fluid leak, or unusual noise. (He isn't an experience rider, nor does he have many miles on his GT, so he may not recognize an unusual noise?!)

I've not heard of anyone else having a problem with this, so it's probably a fluke, especially with such low miles. I've only got a little over 6K miles on mine, but it checks out fine (so far?!) My wife's GT is also fine.
 

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Is there a chance that the dealer wants to gain some bucks from BMW? That the drive itself is O.K.? The parts are supplied free of charge but the job cost will be invoiced to BMW? Or the parts could be used later on the paid basis? I am not an expert in this field, it's just a question.
 

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easyman05 said:
Is there a chance that the dealer wants to gain some bucks from BMW? That the drive itself is O.K.? The parts are supplied free of charge but the job cost will be invoiced to BMW? Or the parts could be used later on the paid basis? I am not an expert in this field, it's just a question.
No chance. These folks are honorable people. Besides, Don said he saw the wheel wiggle himself, once the service tech showed him what to look for.
 

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easyman05 said:
Is there a chance that the dealer wants to gain some bucks from BMW? That the drive itself is O.K.? The parts are supplied free of charge but the job cost will be invoiced to BMW? Or the parts could be used later on the paid basis? I am not an expert in this field, it's just a question.
I can't imagine my dealer or any other UK dealer doing this. BMW sells on the reputation of the bikes and the reputation of the aftercare, or at least it does in the UK.

Brian
 

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glad it got caught.

Even though you have downtime - my opinion is you are fortunate to have the dealer/mech. catch it. Just make sure you change the gear lube on the new one around 500-600 miles to flush out the crap.

Cheers.
 

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pipenslippers said:
I can't imagine my dealer or any other UK dealer doing this. BMW sells on the reputation of the bikes and the reputation of the aftercare, or at least it does in the UK.

Brian
Brian,

I am not so optimistic about all the dealers. I had rather opposite experience with the dealer in London - I was misled on VAT refund buying Nav III. Maybe because I was a foreign tourist? :)
 

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translation of a similar problem in the GT
Hari Dukes

There start to hear a noise new, and peculiar. Single it did when falling down in the curves, and from very low speed. It was not necessary to make great peculiarly fallen down so that it left the noise, and to the 2 sides equal. So I called to my BMW attendance in Spain and they said to me that it went to me to Insbruck if moto could walk. This was the 4 of afternoon of Monday 14 of August. I arrived on the following day at the concessionaire of Insbruck to 17:00, being celebration like here in Spain, and closed to that same hour. Total, that proves moto, hears the noise, but they did not see absolutely anything. All this in perfect German, clear. Until one of the mechanics raises it the small horse and detects a movement in the wheel of back of 5mm. approximately INCREDIBLE. In order to kill itself, we go. At those moments moto had on 7000 kms. Total, that says to me that Wednesday looks for a solution to me, that they do not have the piece and that they will see that they can do. The attendance of BMW says correctly to me, that it looks for a rent car to me, and the attendance of the insurance that looks for a hotel to me, and that sends the invoices to them (we will see what happens with these invoices). For Wednesday to 9:00 already they had undressed a GT that they had in exhibition and the differential in mine was mounting me. Impressive. To 10:00 in the morning it left with moto neat, when I realized that the small noise of the clutch was very many greater than when I left it. The comment to the one of the concessionaire, and says me that that is necessary to change it, but that that if that takes one week in arriving, and which it is not possible to be cleared to same that the differential, since the screws must be new. Total, that I say to him that it is worth, that I hold until Monday or Tuesday, but that while I will try to look for another solution. Indeed, the solution I found it in Munich, the central concessionaire motorrad. Impressive. Worthy to see. I do not have words to describe that. It is what to all we would like to have. By the way, if somebody is thinking about buying motos in Germany, that goes that way. They had 3 gt 2006, with 3000 kms. the one that more, to 14.000€ full-it equips. But good, to the failure, according to I called to them from Insbruck, they said to me that they had to put the oil clutch during 24 hours before mounting it in moto, and that put it at that same moment, but that happens to me when it wants. Fuí, I left my moto, and immediately the uncle of conce came with a nuevita Rt, so that Munich knew, and they served the anchorages to me as my suitcases. On the following day they gave my Gt to me with the changed clutch.
 

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haridukes said:
translation of a similar problem in the GT
Hari Dukes

There start to hear a noise new, and peculiar. Single it did when falling down in the curves, and from very low speed.
After reading this post early this morning, I mounted Katie for my morning pilgrimage to the office. At about 30 mph in 2nd gear as I tip the bike left to right swerving up the road I can hear a distinct "howl/rubbing" sort of noise every time the bike drops over to the left or right. Although the left sounded more predominant.

As I ramped up to the expressway, I was quite nervous about a sudden rear drive lock up. It ruined my usually exhuberant/invigorating ride into the office.

Can others please verify whether or not they're experiencing this same sound?

If I centerstand the bike, is there some side-to-side movement I'm looking for if I have this problem?

The bike has 7K on it. Rear drive oil has never been changed. First service was performed. at 750 km. Have done my own oil change subsequently at 6.5K (all figures in kilometres).

Thanks for your input.
 

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SKIZIKS said:
...At about 30 mph in 2nd gear as I tip the bike left to right swerving up the road I can hear a distinct "howl/rubbing" sort of noise every time the bike drops over to the left or right. Although the left sounded more predominant.
...
Can others please verify whether or not they're experiencing this same sound?

If I centerstand the bike, is there some side-to-side movement I'm looking for if I have this problem?
Sure it isn't tire howl your hearing from the tread pattern?

Try rocking your rear wheel while on the center-stand. Shouldn't be any play. You might want to change the final drive oil and see what comes out. I'm thinking of doing mine this weekend if I can find the proper oil. I went 4 car places and three bike shops (no BMW dealer here) and came up empty. Only close gear oil is Mobil 1 75-90wt. at PepBoys which I may have to use (used it in my RT up to 100K miles). No Castrol anywhere, nor Red Line, nor Amsoil, Spectrol, Blue-Ray, etc.
 

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GMack said:
Sure it isn't tire howl your hearing from the tread pattern?
That's my first thought and my hope as well. I guess I'm just a little spooked. Having a final drive lockup at the speeds I travel would be life threatening and I don't like what I'm reading here.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
That sounds just like tire howl. Mine is getting pretty noisy, but then I'm still on the original tires with over 6,000 miles. The center is getting pretty flat, and when I lean over in curves, both front and rear howl pretty good. I've heard it on lots of my bikes, especially when my tires are nearing the end of their useful life.

As I understand it, the way to check for rear drive failure is to put it on the center stand, grip the rear tire at the nine o'clock and the three o'clock position, and using a pushing and pulling motion with your hands, try to rock the rear wheel sideways. If their's any detectable motion, it's time to have your mechanic check it out. If the only motion you can get is up and down (suspension), or wheel rotation, you're still OK. If I'm in error on this somewhat crude, but basic method, someone please correct me.

BTW, for the record, so there's no misunderstanding, the problem that I was reporting is NOT on MY GT (nor my wife's). It WAS however, at my local dealership. I couldn't quiz the mechanics, as they were really busy, and my wife was wanting to go back to riding (how could I argue with THAT?!)
 

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SKIZIKS said:
That's my first thought and my hope as well. I guess I'm just a little spooked. Having a final drive lockup at the speeds I travel would be life threatening and I don't like what I'm reading here.
It probably is. My BT's howled like a mother, but any tire can howl once it has been worn down in the center.
 

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bearing free - play...

GMack said:
Sure it isn't tire howl your hearing from the tread pattern?

Try rocking your rear wheel while on the center-stand. Shouldn't be any play. You might want to change the final drive oil and see what comes out. I'm thinking of doing mine this weekend if I can find the proper oil. I went 4 car places and three bike shops (no BMW dealer here) and came up empty. Only close gear oil is Mobil 1 75-90wt. at PepBoys which I may have to use (used it in my RT up to 100K miles). No Castrol anywhere, nor Red Line, nor Amsoil, Spectrol, Blue-Ray, etc.

I don't have a KGT (YET) and this is comming from many years of auto work. Depending on the style of bearing used on wheel axles there is normally a mearurement of around 5 thousands of an inch free play after the bearing is mounted, torqued down and then backed off, and locked down.

No free play and the bearing will go bad as it heats up and gualds the bearings. Too much free play and the bearings get beat to death banging against the race.

I would think there would be some indication in the shop service manual if in fact there should be any free play and if so, what the measurment is.

I sure hope BMW and you guys get all of this stuff hammered out before I order mine.

Cheers. and good luck .
 

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You're on it Clickr. Check out Anton Lagardier's article(s) on final drive maintenance. It's all in the shims, controlling both the radial/side loading on the bearings and the lash. He's a good tech.
 

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clickr said:
....I would think there would be some indication in the shop service manual if in fact there should be any free play and if so, what the measurment is.
I was just out trying to figure out the drain and replace method on the final. The BMW book shows the dial indicator mounted to the final drive and the indicator plunger on the wheel's rim edge. Maximum play is 1 millimeter (plus or minus 1/2 millimeter on the dial). There is no minimum number specified. Luckily, mine doesn't exhibit any noticeable movement by hand.

Once I got a peek in the rear fill hole (Note: It isn't a filler plug technically, it's the drain plug/hole) I see that there is no room to insert a hose of any type as the crown gear is right there. I had hopes of doing some sort of suction flush but that is now shot. Even filling through it would be slow unless you could seal the hole with a plug and inject the fluid into it.

The actual fill hole is the speed sensor on the inside of the final drive near the wheel. They recommend a special BMW tool to seal it once the sensor is out (maybe a cork?). The oil is also filled through that same sensor hole.

The Torx on that plug was a really loose T-45 and I was hesitant to use it one it for fear of rounding it out. I ended up using a 1/4" hex head to get the plug out since it fit better. No biggie really and it came out pretty easily. It has an O-ring on it, no crush washer.

I watched some of the yellow oil drain out. Some slight grayish stuff along the edge of the drip, maybe moly-based assembly lube? However, I did see some very small silver glitter-like flecks in the oil, but they weren't magnetic so it must have been aluminum or perhaps stainless steel. Dunno. Oil was pretty clear, not chocolate-like or smelly indicating a final failure being imminent (the nasty one where the bearing's side seal disintegrates and the grease mixes with the oil).

Maybe this weekend I'll do it according to the book and swing the assembly down to let the oil drain out of the final. Might flush it out with a little more oil while it's down since it doesn't take the full quart. Book doesn't say anything about indexing the rear yoke once the break is made. I may mark it just to be safe.

Still cannot find the darn Castrol specified. I may end up using a Mobil 1 75/90 and 75/140 mix as on my old RT. The 75/90 wt. in my hot region may be a little too light an oil. BMW seemed to fluctuate on that on the RT with the 75-90 original and then they began selling the 75/140 wt. The spec'd Castrol looks to be 75/90 wt.
 

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grip the rear tire at the nine o'clock and the three o'clock position,
It's actually better to grip the wheel at 12 and 6 because grabbing at 6/3 and trying to induce movement will ALSO make the motorcycle wiggle on the sidestand. Grabbing at top and bottom and push/pulling on wheel to check freeplay will be less likely to make the bike move.

I seem to remember a R1200GS rear drive issue similiar to this where they recommended replacing the entire rear drive unit as well. I saw this on ADV rider a year or so back.

While I didn't get the chance to talk to the owner of this bike, I did see the vehicle, Kevin showed it to me. I watched the whole wheel move a good 2-3 mm and the hollow shaft in the center of the drive even moved up and down...Not good.

Kudos to Sean for finding that!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
BMRPAL said:
.... Kudos to Sean for finding that!!!
Yes, Sean is a great mechanic. What's even more remarkable, the bike wasn't even in for maintenance, just a quick computer upgrade. I hope he's well paid, I don't know what I'd do if he ever left the dealership!

Too bad that there were no parts available in NA though, Don was a bit bummed out about that.
 

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To measure the free play you need a special tool - gauge, as the allowed free play is up to 1 mm. It's almost impossible to see it, IMHO.
If you can see it or feel by hand, then the bearing must be already dead.
 

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easyman05 said:
To measure the free play you need a special tool - gauge, as the allowed free play is up to 1 mm. It's almost impossible to see it, IMHO.
If you can see it or feel by hand, then the bearing must be already dead.

Uhhh, yea it wobbled BIG time, could see everything moving ( wheel, hollow axel, black ring cover that spins w/ wheel )


BTW, my Z6's make a wonderful howl when cornering now that they are 60%+ worn.
 
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