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Purchased when recovering from accident with my 2001 BMW K1200rs in 2014. Bike currently has 44734 miles on it.

Bike has been registered and insured but not on the road for 2 years because it is not running properly. Appears to run ok when cold but seems to have a "miss" and "vibrate" when throttling up when warm. Riding same thing. Fuel is fresh.

Work done to find out what is wrong. Note: Bike is running exactly as it was when problems began 2 years ago and any of this work was done.

Replaced Fuel Filter, added quick disconnects and fuel pressure gauge. Fuel pressure running about 53 PSI.

Removed Throttle bodies and cleaned (without removing IAC or TPS) so blue marks are still where factory placed them. Did not replace the intake boots but cannot find any vacuum leaks while running and testing with propane tank. I did move the throttle spring between 3 and 4 to relieve the heavy throttle pull these bikes are known for.

Ran new fuel lines to rail and back to quick disconnects.

Cleaned the oil gunk off top of engine and replaced the crankcase vent tube with new part from BMW.

Replaced Coil (twice), Plug wires, plugs, and did the valve adjustment (replacing three valve buckets due to them being tight). Replaced Fuel Injectors

Plugs look ok (Not wet and light Brown). Installed new Air Filter.

Performed the Carbon Caster removal along with vacuum pump and capped off the TB's.

Had performed various test on the IAC, TPS. HAL, Air Intake Sensor, Engine Temp gauge (under TPS). Not sure of accuracy of these test. Used regular timing light on plug wires while running but not sure test was accurate. Purchased and installed the BoosterPlug.

Also pulled the O2 Sensor and bench test where results showed it was ok. Have not replaced it though.

Performed Compression test (Last today 03/22/20). Cold
Cyl 1 - 165
Cyl 2 - 158
Cyl 3 - 150
Cyl 4 - 155

Finally I've purchased the Motoscan App and run on the bike. I am receiving a trouble code for IAC (1506) when first running bike and it disappears after warm up (Probably when no long being read).

Vitals from Live Data on Motoscan after warm up and at Idle..
Volts Batt - 13.35
Volts Intake Air Temp - 3.63
Air Intake Temp - -3.8c
Engine Temp - 105.0c
Lambda - 892.72mV (org test did so regular fluctuation 85-901mV but not seeing that type of fluctuations in recent test).
DKP (understand this is german for the TPS) - flucuates between 2.26 and 2.59 degrees
Engine speed - 1200 - 1350 RPM

Hot at 3500 RPM
Volts Batt - 13.27
Volts Intake Air Temp - 3.61v
Intake Air Temp - -3.3c
Lambda - 892.72mV
DKP - 7.11 degress
Engine Temp - 103.8c
Engine Speed - 3500 RPM

Temps on header pipes after warmup seem low on 1 and 4.

Cyl 1 - 279 - 470F
Cyl 2 - 570 - 670F
Cyl 3 - 520 - 620F
Cyl 4 - 284 - 349F
 

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O2 sensor? Should oscillate in the 200-800mV range give or take a few mVs.And if the heater function of the sensor is functionning the oscillations will start after 1minute30seconds from starting a cold engine.

NTK 25542 is a direct replacement, unlike some universals it does have the right heater resistance specs and plug&play.

Intake air temp? Are you working in the cold outside or is that the Booster plug fooling the ECU into richening the fuel/air ratio?

Fuel injectors replaced? With freshly cleaned and balanced injectors?Unless you know how to bench test them with a pulser for spray pattern/flow and atomisation I'd send a set for ultrasonic cleaning.$15-20.00 ea.The only time(s) I had rideability issues like yours,misses and vibrations,were dirty fuel injectors.So and because I can now recognize the signs I sent this set to the cleaners last year and got rid of the buzzes before that got worse.

Also very hard to see about vacuum leaks on them with propane.Manipulating/inspecting the rubber is the way to go.And some Red Rubber grease to keep them pliable and long lasting like mine at 293,000kms.And my red rubber greased distribution hose never failed altough I eventually replaced it with DIY copper at about 2-3 times the milleage others typically fail.

Plastic intake stubs screwed into the head? Known to warp and cause vacuum leaks.That is if some corrosion hasn't found its way toward the Orings sealing the stubs?

Do you have a 4columns vacuum manometer? Might show leaks or an unbalance of the TBs.Is all the blue paint still there at the rail adjusters?There has been attempts at balancing the TBs back then.Most unsuccessful......!DO NOT attempt that procedure unless everything else is to specs.

Throttle valve actuator(TVA) or idle switch (gs911) so IAC(Motoscan) faults is usually,as I can introduce that at will on my bike,caused by throttle not all the way back to the stop.Tight throttle cable or no play?Looser springs?And the throttle bodies shaft/bushings may be worn and butterflies binding and at the same time that shaft wear may bring about a vacuum leak.I replaced my TBs years ago with the 04s with Stainless shaft/bearings instead of bushings and successfully balanced them.

Warm up that motor some and redo the compression checks.They should be pretty even at ~165.

And can you pull the oil filler plug,rotate the engine if just to see the no2 connecting rod fasteners? If the updated engine with the cold fractured connecting rods the conrod bolts are Torx bolts.If the early engine prone to break conrods the conrod end is held by studs and you'd see a nut.If an earlier engine I'd check oil pressure and make sure it isn't seizing up.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
2 sensor? Should oscillate in the 200-800mV range give or take a few mVs.And if the heater function of the sensor is functionning the oscillations will start after 1minute30seconds from starting a cold engine.
Ans: This is what Motoscan was originally reporting but it was oscillating between about 85 and 901mV

NTK 25542 is a direct replacement, unlike some universals it does have the right heater resistance specs and plug&play.
Ans: Thanks I'll look into that O2 sensor.

Intake air temp? Are you working in the cold outside or is that the Booster plug fooling the ECU into richening the fuel/air ratio?
Ans: It in my garage here in Richmond Va, and so its generally warm and extra warm this week. Booster plug lead is tape along side under fairing.

Fuel injectors replaced? With freshly cleaned and balanced injectors?Unless you know how to bench test them with a pulser for spray pattern/flow and atomisation I'd send a set for ultrasonic cleaning.$15-20.00 ea.The only time(s) I had rideability issues like yours,misses and vibrations,were dirty fuel injectors.So and because I can now recognize the signs I sent this set to the cleaners last year and got rid of the buzzes before that got worse.
Ans: yes they are new injectors and I can hear then coming on. They are aftermarket and possible suspect (I have originals in box here I can send to have cleaned).

Also very hard to see about vacuum leaks on them with propane.Manipulating/inspecting the rubber is the way to go.And some Red Rubber grease to keep them pliable and long lasting like mine at 293,000kms.And my red rubber greased distribution hose never failed altough I eventually replaced it with DIY copper at about 2-3 times the milleage others typically fail.
Ans: Ok I will pull the "Top" offf again and get down the the TB's and probably replace intake boots and o-rings.

Plastic intake stubs screwed into the head? Known to warp and cause vacuum leaks.That is if some corrosion hasn't found its way toward the Orings sealing the stubs?
Ans: Yes, originally I only inspected and cleaned oil/grease off them when cleaning the mess on top of the motor and they looked good (DUH) so I installed the TB's back on them and tightened them down. Again I should probably replace.

Do you have a 4columns vacuum manometer? Might show leaks or an unbalance of the TBs.Is all the blue paint still there at the rail adjusters?There has been attempts at balancing the TBs back then.Most unsuccessful......!DO NOT attempt that procedure unless everything else is to specs.
Ans: Yes I have a Yamaha FJR1300 I purchased (because the BMW down) and it came with a 4 column Nanometer. I'll put that on the TB's and run it.

Throttle valve actuator(TVA) or idle switch (gs911) so IAC(Motoscan) faults is usually,as I can introduce that at will on my bike,caused by throttle not all the way back to the stop.Tight throttle cable or no play?Looser springs?And the throttle bodies shaft/bushings may be worn and butterflies binding and at the same time that shaft wear may bring about a vacuum leak.I replaced my TBs years ago with the 04s with Stainless shaft/bearings instead of bushings and successfully balanced them.
Ans: Throttle cable not tight - Loose where the end goes into the TB's plate. I'll address that also.

Warm up that motor some and redo the compression checks.They should be pretty even at ~165.
ANS: Ok hope they come up when I test warmed up.

And can you pull the oil filler plug,rotate the engine if just to see the no2 connecting rod fasteners? If the updated engine with the cold fractured connecting rods the conrod bolts are Torx bolts.If the early engine prone to break conrods the conrod end is held by studs and you'd see a nut.If an earlier engine I'd check oil pressure and make sure it isn't seizing up.
Ans: yes, I just went in there with an Endoscope and it appears the caps are on there with "Hex" head bolts with (MX) stamped into them "I believe". But I'll check to make sure oil pressure is good (no light from the sender).
 

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Anyone mentioned the hall effect transmitter? The three wires to it tend to go south and this is 20 years old now. You can find it on MAX bmw parts fiche "engine electronics"
 

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I see your Intake Air Temp is quite low, can the reported temp possibly be correct for Richmond VA at this time? If the IAT is reporting that cold, the ECU will probably richen the mixture, possibly to the point where the engine misfires from too-rich mix. Add a Booster Plug, and you can't be certain where the ECU thinks it is. Maybe take the Plug out of the system for a time...

Your Motoscan O2 sensor reading would seem to be okay, as well as the undescribed bench test you ran on it.

You say your plugs are visually okay... When my KGT ran far too rich, I could look down the exhaust and see the cat glowing faintly red, even daytime, and it smoked a good bit and would not rev easily. The plugs, when I replaced them, did not seem to show that richness.... though it was clearly the problem.

DO NOT mess with the throttle bodies any more than you absolutively, posilutely have to. DAMHIK! Although a 4-channel manometer "should be all you need" after I went onto the screws of my K100RS it never ran any better, probably worse. Sold my two K100RS, have a K1300GT and alles gut, but throttle synch is for well experienced persons who will be responsible for their actions. Running as a test with the manometer connected MIGHT tell you about a vaccuum leak, but please be careful how you proceed.

I think a loose throttle cable is okay at idle where all throttle should be resting on the stop(s) independent of the cable (as long as the cable isn't tight at idle) but you should verify the cable is pulling the throttle valves equally at higher rpms - this could be your entire problem.
 

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Intake air temps seem suspect and those cylinder temperatures do not seem right. If you have the old injectors and can swap them back in, I would try that and look at those cylinder temps again.
 

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Air intake temp: That is what a Booster plug does, fools the ECU into thinking temperatures are lower than ambient thus richening the mixture.May just be temporary.....ECU may adapt and switch back to leaner providing the O2 sensor works correctly?

That O2 seemingly stuck on reading rich?If the injectors aren't atomizing the fuel it won't all burn so O2 may get stuck on reading rich.Or if one uses any silicone products on intakes reassembly?Silicone is poisonous to O2 sensors.

Aftermarket injectors as in cheap copies of the Bosch?Highly suspicious,there are plenty of discussions (and tests)about them.DO NOT use them.If one locks up at speed as talked about in some car forum, that will shut fuel to that cylinder and lean it.And as the fuel does cool combustion chambers......no fuel from a locked injector may destroy the affected cylinder rather quickly at speed!

If one wants cheaper,just about any Ford product from the 80s-90s runs the same injectors albeit with a slightly different pintle cap and part number but still and as per my fuel injection specialist the same injectors.In any case my bike did not have any problems running with Ford (Bosch)injectors.Just me not liking anything Ford related so replaced later with BMW OEMs

OP has a fuel pressure gauge! Any pressure bleed down over time with system primed,ignition Off? A specialist would recommend 1/2hr and no bleed down.I go for 1hr and even overnight,plenty of residual pressure left in my tight system the next morning!

One can also remove tank,rail injectors,reattach everything on an outdoor bench, power the pump/open injectors with a 9V battery, or better a pulser,and inspect spray pattern etc.Carefully......at full pressure them injectors will shoot about 8'.

Or a "power balance test". Pulsers are now rather cheap.~5% inbalance on one injector and another one sticky,not flowing to spec and not atomizing and bike was buzzy/vibey at the 4500-5000rpms range.Off to the cleaner/FI specialist and now smooth.And still smooth 20Ks later.

Pulser, cheap and effective:

https://www.ebay.com/p/6011254750


Pull away test? 5-6th gear rolling at 2000rpms and then crank up the throttle?Worst case scenario with contaminated injectors is the bike will stall so one should be ready to pull the clutch quickly.Other than that with correct fueling/clean injectors it will pull smoothly from 2000rpms and you'll be speeding in a few seconds.

And general running at low gears speeds/rpms? Should be smooth and the surgey feelings that some have at times proclaimed as normal for the Ks and that a booster plug or such was the cure?Not normal my K with the 296 ECU....clean injectors/no vac leaks/balanced TBs does not surge and does not need a booster!

Hall sensor is a possibility but they hardly ever fail on the Ks.And the wires unlike some earlier BMWs are (should be) the upgraded NiChrome?I'll look at my spare later. Mind you I'd pull the cover,someone may have been in there and squeezed the wires and(or)changed the timing? Or reinstall the plate lining up them halfmoon notches as I have seen done.That is 0 degree static lining them up.

And then you could do a sensor signal test with the rig (9V battery/LED) described in Clymer,toss some heat at the sensors and see if that makes it fail as most sensors will fail when hot?

Timing (static) can also be checked with that same battery/Led rig providing one marks the timing plate as I did.

High idle? 1200-1300 at engine temp up there(105), that's too high.Should be at ~1000 give or take a few!High idle on a K is usually vacuum leaks.BTW my replacement TBs had about your milleage or maybe less but came with dried out and cracked manifolds.Cracked just by the clamp so very hard to see unless unclamped and manipulated.

Vacuum leaks are usually shown as an oily residue around the leak but that can take a while to show.Or a blurb of the engine if slightly shutting then applying throttle.Particularily annoying when applying throttle in a curve!

TPS running angle looks OK, 2.6 is within normal idle running but at 1000rpms.Easy to adjust/check with a Voltmeter especially so with TBs off.And it is basically a potentiometer also easy to check the tracks.

Basic setting with TVA(IAC) removed and reading voltage at pin no1 is 0.34V.But I remember changing it up to 0.42v(?) and my bike instantly ran rough.Idle went up and ran like shit so not even a test ride and I quickly put it back to normal.Just as a test someone was proclaiming that doing such a change had fixed his fueling problems. Not so as it turned out later......aftermarket fuel injectors and some adjustable fuel pressure regulator were the problem.


Jean(Sailor) has a good write up about the TPS.I still have the hard copy but my PDF/Word(?) is gone.I hope he and family are OK over there.:sad
 

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There you go, Testing(and adjusting) a TPS from Sailor in PDF form.You can do the voltage check and adjustement in place,one has to carefully insert a small wire ( 28ga) at pin1 then snap the connector back in place.

Loosening/tightening the back screw requires a special tool if just to reach the screw.Special tool is for me 6" of steel brake pipe slightly bent and a torx wrench stuffed at the end.And some touchy feely to engage the fastener!:smile

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw0Wre-Yho88OZo1VdApbHhp
 

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Jean(Sailor) has a good write up about the TPS.I still have the hard copy but my PDF/Word(?) is gone.I hope he and family are OK over there.:sad
Pierre,
I hope all is fine with you in your fairly quiet neiborhood ;-)
We are doing OK here - being somewhat retired, not having to go to work everyday AND living in small town, makes this ordeal more manageable.

About the Technical Document for the TPS of the K1200 "brick-engine": in 2019 I have published a more recent version compare to the one you have. The list of changes / improvements are on the last page. Most of the changes / additions are pretty minor - some have been done to help clarify questions that had showed up in other forums (including the K1200LT forum). See attached PDF document...

I also have many notes about dismantling / cleaning up / balancing / rebuilding the 4 throttle-bodies assy.
HOWEVER I have no intention to publish these as:
1) These notes would need to be organized, cleaned up , photo added to clarify certain points,

2) I am also very concerned that anyone touching all these screws protected with blue paint (like I did) might not be able to put things back together perfectly. Not you of course, but the average "shade tree" mechanic ;-)

3) These notes are based on my own personal experience of doing many removal, change adjustements. live test run. I had to compare / confirm using 3 different Throttle-body assy. BMW does not publish any method or specs - however they will gladly sell you a complete throttle-body assy perfectly setup with TPS + TVA for $US 1300 (non-cruise) or $1400 (model with cruise-control). Anyone could buy many used TB-assy on EBAY for half of this. If you have the ability to remove / replace - you are bound to get a good one eventually...
 

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Thank Jean saved on the pocket computer!....I'll print that one up!Lots of time to read and replace my early oil stained copy.

Yes please let's not say anything about synchronising TBs.:angelAltough I did mount my mercury columns balancer as per my usual yearly checkups,nothing needs touching so my Red paint shall remain imtact!
Columns are stable....no bouncing around that could indicate other problems such as fueling/vacuum leaks etc.....!

Attempting a balance if to compensate for other more common problems without adressing them first is a very bad idea!Very bad!:sad But.....been there done that!2016 at ~160,000kms? Ouch....that long ago? Now at 293,130kms and runs like a top.:smile

Yep.....fairly quiet,village pics look deserted on Farcebook and but for groceries/liquor everything is closed.I am good.....lots of food and TP,disinfectants etc.... I can hide for another couple weeks.
 

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Yep.....fairly quiet,village pics look deserted on Farcebook and but for groceries/liquor everything is closed.I am good.....lots of food and TP,disinfectants etc.... I can hide for another couple weeks.
Very glad to hear good news from you. Louis called me last evening as I was writing previous forum reply to you.

BACK TO THE OP Problems: I am posting the list below for the OP, not for you as I know that you know this very well ;-)

Having followed many K1200RS forums for last 17 years, I would say BY FAR THE MOST COMMON ISSUES causing similar symptoms as the OP is having - by order of probability :

1) Intake Air-leaks. There are a lot more source / places that many can think of, and these intake air-leaks are very common with age EVEN with fairly low mileaged. All these rubber parts (intake stub , hoses , O-ring) do not do well after 8 to 10 years. Because of material expansion / contraction, the symtoms can get better or worst when engine is hot - a good example are the rigid black stub between cylinder head and TB assy - these have a small O-ring under to seal air-leaks - with age the O-ring do not seal so well.

2) Defective Engine Coolant sensor. The "real" coolant sensor used by the EFI system is located on rearmost cylinder-head. This should be checked with Voltmeter (OHM function) both when engine is Cold or Hot with ignition OFF.

3) Badly adjusted throttle cable that does not go back to idle stop completely. This is important as Motronic-ECU goes into a defect mode not seeing proper low value on TPS

4) Damaged / worn high tension spark plug wires, Over time they develop crack and worn out spot where they rub (on cylinder head metal OR on another spark plug cap).

5) A bad wiring, a connector not seated, connector loose, connector corrosion : when you have a used BMW that has been worked on by many, including some not so competent, you get a lot of these unchecked items. Any sensor / connector related to the EFI system is suspect as a probable cause. Each Sensor / Injector connectors (both male and female side) should be inspected / cleaned - forget the other unrelated connectors like lights, horn or flashers.

6) Defective Hall sensor OR just the wiring of this sensor. On the K1200 , these Hall-effect sensors are very reliable and history shown most problems have been caused by a bad maintenance job - most commonly when you had to remove Hall sensor and front timing chain cover to fix a leaking cover.

One side of the Hall-effect plate is for cylinder 1-4 , the other side for cylinder 2-3 (1-4 pistons go up togheter , so does 2-3 at next 180 deg intervall like most in-line 4 cylinders engine). Given the symtoms that the OP saw (lower exhaust temp on 1-4) this is relevant as probable cause. Internally the coil-pack is also arranged in pair 1-4 and 2-3, however he said he changed this already.
 

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5 as to the connectors,EFI.....
I sure fixed a lot of them wires that were showing cracks/copper close to the connector(s).Not the best insulation that soy based stuff BMW uses,doesn't age well or resist strong solvents that one may use in/around them.Wires harden, crack and even the mice like to chew on that!Chewing hasn't happened to me.....they go for the bacon fat baited traps first!

Small wires also,if the insulation fails they'll break as the copper strands aren't supported.

Corrosion anywhere at the connectors?I carefully go over all of them every couple years.Not with dielectric greases,they'll dry out,attract dirt etc and in my case last year as I was complacent on some electrical cleaning the brake light circuit will give a false positive iABS fault.

Got my fresh pump bottle of that from Fortnine this winter and went over all the connectors but not in the electrical box.....that was done last year!

https://fortnine.ca/en/acf-50-corrosion-block

Corrosion? I'd pull the ECU.I bought a spare years ago and one of the pins was slightly corroded.That ACF50 product is very good, kills corrosion on contact, seeps in and protects for a very long time.

Hot test for the Hall sensors,used to be in the IBMWR tech articles but looks like it is gone.And so are most of the timing articles. Too bad OP is too far I'd hand him a spare Hall Sensor, marked (6BTDC static)timing plate.....LED set up as per Clymer and let him go at it?

Plastic intake stubs bowed?Funny my rather bowed BUT previously lapped leaky intakes I stuck in the shop toaster oven for a few minutes at 350F.They came out flat but I could see them bow again as they cooled.Found a cheap flat set on fleabag,ordered on the road then went home and mounted them with Hylomar as Oring dressing.No leaks and 50Ks(miles) later looked again, they were slightly bowed.No lapping,remounted again with Hylomar....been a couple years or 40Ks(miles) and no oily residue in/around the base so no leaks!:smile

Hylomar is very good stuff,Non drying and fuel proof unlike most other sealers that are only fuel resistant.They(Hylomar) do not claim fuel proof but 2yrs on my intake Orings it was still as applied.

Hylomar:

Hylomar ? Non-Setting Compounds


And Red Rubber grease for anything BMW (and others) rubber,specs speak for themselves:


What is Red Rubber Grease, such as Castrol and Girling, why and how it is used for hydraulic brakes, clutch and suspension lubrication. Technical information and selected applications.

Not cheap in the US but available.Ooops no more Castrol on Amazon from NJ?Ooops but I did post the link on a busy forum last week,must have sold out?:wink

Still maybe some other brands?

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=castrol+red+rubber+grease&ref=is_s

Ebay? More than 10 available and 15 views per day?Hurry up......!:glasses

https://www.ebay.com/p/1589863421
 
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Discussion Starter #13
Replying to H96669

Have not touched the K bike. Had a "spider ground" issue with the FJR1300 I just got squared away. Always something!

Anyway, to get it out of the way, you've scared the crap out of me with the possibility of engine ceasing! Should I pull the pan and check the bearings, conrods and caps closely before doing anything?

Now, Follow up to your most recent post:

1) I'll unplug the Booster Plug and keep it unplugged until bike is again running good.

2) O2 sensor, I am purchasing the NTK unit you've suggested. Not sure why Motoscan was showing it fluctuating and now not! Also had reported Oxygen Sensor Emissions Control - DTC 0170. No info specifically for the K bike online but have found info for VW and Mercedes on it.

3) Note - I had used a bit of silicone (And read about the danger after reinstalling the TB's). It wasn't much but know it was a bad idea. May be causing O2 problems.

4) Injectors are the cheap knockoff and as you've stated (not a good alternative) to the high cost of OEM injectors. I'm sending out the OEM units to be cleaned/tested. Motoscan is reporting live data on injectors @ 1.92ms

5) Fuel Pressure - Again it is over 50 PSI and holds there for some time after shutting bike off but by all mean not overnight. I'll test time and get back.

6) Testing Injectors - When I get back into pulling and replacing the Intake rubber, I'll set up an outdoor test of the injectors.

7) Pulser - Looking into that on ebay now.

8) Hall Sensor - I have done the (spin wheel in 6th gear and listen for pump to come on) and that passed test. I also had pulled and drained to the coolant hose in front of the Hall Sensor plate and removed the plate. Just did a cursory "look around" but did not move/touch it. Replaced cover/hose and refilled with new Antifreeze. I can check closer and reset when you suggest. Motoscan has "actuator control" screen and for the Hall Sensor but not sure what it does. ( I do get the normal DTC codes for the Hall Sensor when bike is not running. They go away.

9) Timing - Motoscan did report on that with Spark angle - 5.98 degrees, Closing time - 4.35ms, Dwell angle 30 degrees.

10) High Idle - Yes too high!! Odd thing is right now the TVA does not appear to be increasing the RPM's much when cold. Bike is starting easy and idling though. Slight white exhaust discharge when warming up and goes away. No carbon buildup out the exhaust pipe. Then idle comes up as bike warms up and is too high. Again not sure where the leaks could be coming from but will replace the usual suspects and get back.

11) Vacuum leaks - Yes before I started working in the bike the entire top of engine was full of oil and a mess. So that's why the crankcase vent was replaced after a thorough cleaning. Think I have a couple pictures I'll attach.

12) TPS - I purchased a spare off Ebay and have it here but will not touch for now. I "DO NOT PLAN" to touch any screws with blue paint on it without being asked to here.

13) I will pull TVA again and test pin 1 for 0.34v which I believe I tested previously - So long ago I do not remember.

Again, Thanks in Advance for all the help with my problem(s). Should have engaged you folks a long time away - instead of suffering alone.

PIC'S attached and have many more.

Dan Fellows
 

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13) I will pull TVA again and test pin 1 for 0.34v which I believe I tested previously - So long ago I do not remember.

Again, Thanks in Advance for all the help with my problem(s). Should have engaged you folks a long time away - instead of suffering alone.

PIC'S attached and have many more.

Dan Fellows
I suppose you just did a typo on point 13 above. Otherwise there is a big misunderstanding...
- The measurement of PIN #1 (+) compare to ground (-) is for the TPS (not the TVA as stated above).

- Unllike the TPS, the TVA (also called idle actuator) can be removed and replaced (3 Torx screws) without touching any "blue-paint" screws. For the TVA, the "factory only" adjustment is behind it, pushing in/out from the throttle upper-arm of the 3rd throttle-body (a small screw and a lock nut).

For the TPS, I am assuming you have downloaded the PDF document I posted a few days ago (just earlier in same thread). As you will see, it is not critical to get exactly 0.34 volts for TPS at idle stop (while TVA is removed / disconnected): a value between 0.33 and 0.36 is still good - you could go as high as 0.38 with a warmed up engine.

IT IS VERY IMPORTANT that the throttle go back to idle stop easily - so the same TPS voltage should be seen by opening / releasing with only minor variation like you had 0.34, next time you see 0.35 and occasionaly you might see 0.36 volts. On later models (2001+) equipped with cruise-control, there is a 2nd throttle cable to force a return / close-down of the TB assy. However on earlier model like yours all this is dependent on the springs and minimum friction of the cable + throttle assy mechanism.

As explained in document, if you have the Throttle-body assy on bench, you can do further static test to validate consistency of both TPS resistance tracks (internal potentiometers).

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Other IMPORTANT STEPS:
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With ignition OFF, remove the Motronic-EFI fuse , wait 20 minutes, reinstall the fuse. Do this before you attempt your 1st engine start using this new TPS adjustment - this will erase old memory base settings and any fault codes caused by manipulations above.

If this is NOt done every time you change something OR everytime a component is unplugged with ignition ON (in this case the TVA was unplugged to check TPS voltage setting), you may see old faults code in memory next time you plug the GS911. Of course, if one needs to read any current fault codes from a previous ride, you want to read it before removing the fuse.

If you have a GS911, you can use the "erase fault codes" menu option to do faster than having to wait 20 minutes. However, BMW or BOSCH or Hexcode (creator of GS911) have NOT documented / confirm if this menu option will also erase the adaptation and base settings kept in EFI memory. So by removing the fuse for 20 mnutes we make sure all that stuff is cleared before next ignition ON cycle.
 

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I can recommend Mr. Injector in Idaho. Super job. 75$ for all 4 units along with fresh orings. When my set was re installed I could not believe how smooth by bike ran.
https://www.mrinjector.us/
 
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8) Hall Sensor - I have done the (spin wheel in 6th gear and listen for pump to come on) and that passed test. I also had pulled and drained to the coolant hose in front of the Hall Sensor plate and removed the plate. Just did a cursory "look around" but did not move/touch it. Replaced cover/hose and refilled with new Antifreeze. I can check closer and reset when you suggest. Motoscan has "actuator control" screen and for the Hall Sensor but not sure what it does. ( I do get the normal DTC codes for the Hall Sensor when bike is not running. They go away.
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Dan Fellows
On the K1200 "brick-engine" these HALL-Effect sensors have been very reliable. If / when they cause problem it will often be mainly when engine is quite hot.

In your intro post for this problem you wrote:
" Appears to run ok when cold but seems to have a "miss" and "vibrate" when throttling up when warm. "

In such case, one need to check / test both sides of the Hall-effect sensors in similar engine conditions where the engine runs badly - when warm or hot. If you are able to stop on side on the road when it runs badly, turn ignition OFF, wait 1 minute, start again. In neutral, will it miss at idle once engine is hot or just when riding at higher RPM?

Unless you can reproduce the miss at lower RPM (when warm / hot), the test of wheel rotaion in 6th gear is useless in this particular case. I have used and suggested this wheel rotation test on centerstand qute often, but it will not tell the truth in all cases , it is only a start to eliminate a defect that can be reproduced at low RPM.

A defective Hall-effect may or MAY NOT leave a fault code that you can read with GS911 - it depends how intermittent it is. These older Motronic 2.2 and 2.4 EFI systems (mainly used on R1100, R1150 and K1200) are quite dumb and simple compare to later models (R1200 after 2004 , K1200S, K1300S....).

Based on your intro post for this problem, you saw low exhasut temp on both 1-4. Either it is caused by Hall-Effect (one side of this sensor plate) or it just happens that by coincidence the 2 injectors of cylinder 1 and 4 are defective at same time (not very probable). This is a simple batch injection system and all injectors will fire together. Only the spark controlled by each side of Hall-effect sensor is paired by 1-4, then 180 apart cylinder 2-3.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hi H96669


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Fortnine ACT-50 Corrosion Block
Ans: I see this 12oz stuff from the same folks on Fleabay and I can get it a bit cheaper and free shipping! Will it do?

https://fortnine.ca/en/acf-50-corrosion-block

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Corrosion? I'd pull the ECU.I bought a spare years ago and one of the pins was slightly corroded.That ACF50 product is very good, kills corrosion on contact, seeps in and protects for a very long time.
Ans: See above.

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Hot test for the Hall sensors,used to be in the IBMWR tech articles but looks like it is gone.And so are most of the timing articles. Too bad OP is too far I'd hand him a spare Hall Sensor, marked (6BTDC static)timing plate.....LED set up as per Clymer and let him go at it?
Ans: Have the clymer manual and will set up an LED for testing.

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Plastic intake stubs bowed? Hylomar as Oring dressing.
Ans: I'll be pulling TB;s and checking as previously stated and look for replacements. I have Hylomar on my workbench

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Rubber grease
Ans: Ordered!

https://pay.ebay.com/rxo?action=success&sessionid=1275100319019


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suppose you just did a typo on point 13 above. Otherwise there is a big misunderstanding...
- The measurement of PIN #1 (+) compare to ground (-) is for the TPS (not the TVA as stated above).

Ans: Actually took info from your previous response but I yes reading would be from the TPS and included in your document that I already located on the Net (Long ago) and again saved to my C drive just before posting problem so I have it.

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For the TPS, I am assuming you have downloaded the PDF document I posted a few days ago (just earlier in same thread). As you will see, it is not critical to get exactly 0.34 volts for TPS at idle stop (while TVA is removed / disconnected): a value between 0.33 and 0.36 is still good - you could go as high as 0.38 with a warmed up engine.
ANS: Yes, That's the PDF you had put out on web long ago and I had previously loaded down.It's loaded down again on this new laptop.

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IT IS VERY IMPORTANT that the throttle go back to idle stop easily - so the same TPS voltage should be seen by opening / releasing with only minor variation like you had 0.34, next time you see 0.35 and occasionaly you might see 0.36 volts. On later models (2001+) equipped with cruise-control, there is a 2nd throttle cable to force a return / close-down of the TB assy. However on earlier model like yours all this is dependent on the springs and minimum friction of the cable + throttle assy mechanism.

As explained in document, if you have the Throttle-body assy on bench, you can do further static test to validate consistency of both TPS resistance tracks (internal potentiometers).
ANS: Yes understand that Throttle is very important to the TPS. And will remove and bench test. Again anything I do will be reported back here.

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With ignition OFF, remove the Motronic-EFI fuse , wait 20 minutes, reinstall the fuse. Do this before you attempt your 1st engine start using this new TPS adjustment - this will erase old memory base settings and any fault codes caused by manipulations above.

If this is NOt done every time you change something OR everytime a component is unplugged with ignition ON (in this case the TVA was unplugged to check TPS voltage setting), you may see old faults code in memory next time you plug the GS911. Of course, if one needs to read any current fault codes from a previous ride, you want to read it before removing the fuse.
ANS: Yes have been disconnecting battery ground to accomplish this but will follow your instructions to remove fuse. Again I do not have a GS911 but purchased the Motoscan app and its OBDLiNK LX and adapter cable.
 

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Do you have a Clymer? Hall sensor signal test is in there , page 289-290 with a simple rig made out of some wires/9V battery and 12V LED bulb from some old tool battery charger I smashed if just for the bulbs.Connect rig and turn engine,LED lights up as the rotor open section goes by the sensor.

Anyway, pretty well the same test for the older Ks.Toss heat at the sensor with the heat gun,up to 200F and if LED goes out sensor is bad!Static test,engine not running.

I one uped that rig so I can use it to static time my K.BUT to do that the timing plate has to be marked at 9BTDC.BMW did not mark it but for TDC.I have a plan/measures if someone wishes to do that but shouldn't be required if replacing the Hall Sensors.Take some references marks between both sensors they are exactly matched from the factory so any marks/numbers etc exactly correspond.Scratch the engine case at such mark of your choosing and remount the new one exactly where the other was.Done...!

If you don't have the Clymer,I'll scan it tomorrow and send it out via email but I'd certainly prefer you read out of your own copy if just for the pictures?

There is also a test with an oscilloscope so I'd guess engine running?That tool I do not have.....I might look into acquiring one now!:smile

Don't worry too much about the general engine health now that you confirmed it is the updated cold fractured conrods.87-88s are the ones prone to seize up but maybe some early 99s came with that engine?Not yours!

Fuel injectors? Toss them aftermarkets in the garbage where they belong! Send your OEMs in for a cleaning....they'll do all them tests for you and will return them w/pre and post cleaning specs!Feel free to post the balance sheet!

A pulser? Some old injector....pressurized fuel supply?Good start for a DIY flame thrower...!:devil:

O2 sensor?Most probably bad!Silicone maybe but the heater function is probably out of specs.If so O2 will have to rely on exhaust heat to bring the tip to 1600F the temp at which the O2 will operate.That can take up to 15 minutes and the readings may not even be stable at that.Slow erratical up/downs,some flatlining in between on the GS911 screen is what will show.Long term effect will be whitish deposits on the spark plugs and potentially the valves faces!Still happy with my NGK,faultless for 2yrs(?)and no more whitish deposits on my plugs.:glasses

Now a functionning O2 heater function can be checked by ear.Start bike, idle and listen.At the 1.30 minute mark, that is one minute/thirty seconds give or take a few depending on ambient, the O2 heater will have brought the tip to 1600F and the O2 will kick in or per the correct definition "close loop".Just at that point one ear will detect a change/dip/pick up of the idle.No need for that software froufrou to tell me that.

O2 sensor totally disconnected? Doesn't cause too many issues,mine ran fine but not enough miles 100? to check fuel economy.I'd assume it would drop significantly as most with a dead sensor have reported such a drop.
 

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O2 sensor totally disconnected? Doesn't cause too many issues,mine ran fine but not enough miles 100? to check fuel economy.I'd assume it would drop significantly as most with a dead sensor have reported such a drop.
Pierre,
For testing purpose, and to break a few myths, many years ago I have done a few rides with O2 sensor disconnected. If the engine is well tuned AND the engine has no intake air-leaks, you could ride with sensor disconnected for quite a while without seeing any major performance issues. In this mode, the EFI runs on the default mapping (based on RPM -vs- TPS posiiton combo) and cannot use the O2 feedback loop.

The only known downside is the fuel economy will go down 10 to 20% - this will affect your mileage mainly for constant RPM like long distance highway. In town, in stop-go traffic, constant RPM change, these EFI system cannot go into "close-loop" very often (or for long period).

I have tested only the version "477" and "296" of the Motronic ECU. Based on anecdotal evidences from other riders I know, It seems the earlier K1200RS having the "232" Motronic-EFI would be affected a bit more by a defective O2 sensor. The early "232" version was mainly used between 1997-2000 (Europe/Canada) OR 1998-2001 for the USA market.
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Potential FAULT CODES generated with defective O2 sensor on K1200RS:
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304: “Oxygen (Lambda) sensor circuit malfunction. Signal implausible.” (I had unplugged sensor – error shown only after engine ran for a while)

304: “Oxygen (Lambda) sensor circuit malfunction. Short-circuit to Earth.” (bad / damaged wiring OR bad sensor)

368: “Lambda-Control, LOWER adaptation limit reached” (Irregular engine operation and engine missing – had low fuel pressure caused by leak from fuel-tank hoses inside)

4400: “Lambda-Control, UPPER control limit reached” (running too rich in adaptation to compensate for a defective / weak sensor)


OF COURSE, all the above will apply only to Montronic Ma2.4 as used on K1200 "brick" and many R1150 boxer - later EFI system on BMW are more complex, more sophisticated, and will behave a bit different to a defective O2 sensor.
 

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Pierre,
For testing purpose, and to break a few myths, many years ago I have done a few rides with O2 sensor disconnected. If the engine is well tuned AND the engine has no intake air-leaks, you could ride with sensor disconnected for quite a while without seeing any major performance issues. In this mode, the EFI runs on the default mapping (based on RPM -vs- TPS posiiton combo) and cannot use the O2 feedback loop.

The only known downside is the fuel economy will go down 10 to 20% - this will affect your mileage mainly for constant RPM like long distance highway. In town, in stop-go traffic, constant RPM change, these EFI system cannot go into "close-loop" very often (or for long period).

I have tested only the version "477" and "296" of the Motronic ECU. Based on anecdotal evidences from other riders I know, It seems the earlier K1200RS having the "232" Motronic-EFI would be affected a bit more by a defective O2 sensor. The early "232" version was mainly used between 1997-2000 (Europe/Canada) OR 1998-2001 for the USA market.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Potential FAULT CODES generated with defective O2 sensor on K1200RS:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
304: “Oxygen (Lambda) sensor circuit malfunction. Signal implausible.” (I had unplugged sensor – error shown only after engine ran for a while)

304: “Oxygen (Lambda) sensor circuit malfunction. Short-circuit to Earth.” (bad / damaged wiring OR bad sensor)

368: “Lambda-Control, LOWER adaptation limit reached” (Irregular engine operation and engine missing – had low fuel pressure caused by leak from fuel-tank hoses inside)

4400: “Lambda-Control, UPPER control limit reached” (running too rich in adaptation to compensate for a defective / weak sensor)


OF COURSE, all the above will apply only to Montronic Ma2.4 as used on K1200 "brick" and many R1150 boxer - later EFI system on BMW are more complex, more sophisticated, and will behave a bit different to a defective O2 sensor.
Thanks....GS911 is still connected,I was lifting a few specs to compare with the OP's.O2 sensor disconnected was then with the infamous 166 and +10yrs ago.Already bad fuel fuel economy so yes did not pursue that but in all appearances ran fine.All highway.....closest street light is? Over 100 miles away!

I'll go see if I could introduce some faults,I have never seen one.But from reading your faults description probably not?But both my defective sensors had defective heaters so no fault codes.And I'll assume that the Bosch universal had a different spec right off the box and that I dragged it along for a while.

Did you pursue the "increasing resistance in the heater circuit with a light bulb" following that IBMW post on whitish deposits from a couple years ago?With a brand new " to OEM specs NTK" the heater will not come on if one adds a small resistance/light bulb to the circuit.OP there was saying thread derail as I talked about that......too bad they shut the forum before I could prove that them deposits were directly related to a non functioning O2 heater function which alas doesn't show as a Motronic fault.

I'll come back later with the Ohms heater specs for Motronic?That replacement NTK is also a Mini replacement so also Motronic.
 
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