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Discussion Starter #161
Ok Good Deal!

We've been at this for some time haven't.

Months ago I was following up on this thread and went ahead and got the OX-Gard that had been recommended from someone.

So I've cleaned up the pin on the MCU and added some OX-Gard to all the pins.
Then followed your queue and pulled Terminal #33 from the block.

See pictures.

I'll go ahead tomorrow and clean that up and lube well. Then put back together!

Will report back.
 

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Good you pulled it out!

That's a crimped connector so wire is stripped then folded over the casing and they crimp over that.

Inspect the wire at the crimp it isn't the better marine rated tinned copper, just plain copper that can (and will) rot away from the verdigris and at ~22Ga better if all the strands are present.
 

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Discussion Starter #163
Ok yep,

So all cleaned up and lubed. Wire connector "straightened out and put back in Block.

Everything back together and started bike with spark tester on plug 2. Getting good spark. Tested on 1 3 and 4 also and good spark.

I believe that problem just happened recently.

So back to my problem. Its still there.

It "appears" that the bike is running ok on center stand in neutral. Revs up nicely with no indication of a problem.

But went for a couple rides to test and get gas. Seems once bike is put in gear the mirror start to rattle. When moving seems to run "OK" but there is a bit of surging (Which I could live with), bike revs up easily and takes off (running on all 4) by the looks of it. But the "Shaking/vibration" is ever present cruising along on light load. It can be seen in the mirrors and felt in the pegs. Also, at stops notice that the idle is high (runs at about 1400rpm) at stoplights etc after warmed up.

Pulled out the nanometer and hooked up to the 4 TB's. I don't like the readings coming from it.

1st Photo - TB 1,2,3 look pretty consistent. #4 "way Low".
2nd Photo - Same thing
3rd Photo - Shows a spike on TB2, Drop on TB3 and #4 still "way low".

Yikes, what's up here?

Dan
 

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Spikes/dips are normal if one is way out.If the average is like the first two pics ignore the third pic.

That no 4 out is more than enough to make it run like crap.
Vacuum leak at no4 from the low reading? And the high idle.
Just maybe from the TPS Oring seal? You had checked every other potential leaks as I recall.
28426



Out of balance? I'd tweak but that's me.Can you push on the no4 throttle actuator right where my screwdriver is pointing?Is there room? There is a pin/spring arrangement between 3-4 so pushing there will close the butterfly a little and vacuum should go up.I did some pushing/prying to move the butterflies as I watched the columns before I decided to balance.And 3 is the fixed one so no adjustment.

28427


28428


Don't tweak them adjusters before telling me that you are ready to do so, I'd give you a few tips.
 

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Discussion Starter #165
Ok Thx

Yes, it's all visible and and relatively accessible!

Yes, I've I've done all the testing/updates for leaks including the Smoke Test if you'd missed that.

And I need to repeat again that I'd done the "spring tension relief" which as you know is in-between 3 and 4.

The throttle cable snaps back nicely, but I did notice if I push down on the TB adjustment screw with my finger when idling high it does come down - usually I push lightly on the 2nd adjuster screw.

So again, that spring on TB4 shown above is where the relief is made.
 

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Hook that spring back on as it is at the throttle stop.Anyway not what I am showing.The other spring little one between 3-4.So 4 sort of floats on the pin/spring.
Pushing just where I showed only closes 4 and should change the vacuum reading on 4 only.
 

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Discussion Starter #167
Ok

Just following up as I move forward.

1. TPS was swapped out with a "new" one and rubber oring looked fine when installed.
2. I did see that the Air Filter housing "Intake" to top of TB4 was slightly crooked. Should not have been causing air leak though. Hate how tight it is in there when installing that housing.
3. Will hook that spring back up as originally down from factory. It has to come back around and under the back of the Tb's though so they need to back off. No big deal though.
4. TVA is off and all TB plate sit flush and when lifted I get no "movement" ack and forth from the plates so that fine.
5. The "other spring" between 3-4 can be pressed down on and move maybe a couple thousands. I'll need to put back together to check vacuum change on TB4 only.
6. Just a note - None of these adjusters have ever been moved by me and appear to show blue paint confirming that. Definitely the adjuster for TB 3-4 clearly shows the factory paint on it.

2nd picture just showing where the "large" spring is hooked for relief. Will be moving back.
 

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Jean had some pictures way back then about the OEM throttle shafts seals? BMW/Bing updated that in 04,update was SS throttle shaft on needle bearings w/better sealing.

Earlyer like yours (and my 03) would have brass shaft/bushings and flattish seals.Some wear at my shafts/bushings and the appearance of blackish residue (dirt) by the shafts inside the TBs.And some slight binding of the plates at temps close to freezing so TVA might not have opened the throttles as it should in cold weather I had cold start problems.So I updated to the later version then which I balanced later.

Subsequently reinstalled the OEMs and as they were out of balance but not as much as what you are showing I balanced those and ran them for a season.

Now back to the updated for a few years? Yearly checks with the old mercury columns manometers? Always within 1-2 cm on that old tool scale from each other so good enough?
 

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Discussion Starter #169
Ok won't get to pulling the Tb's and swapping that spring back to the "heavy Handed Throttle" setting until tomorrow.

Just one other thing to mention is that I have a consistent "Error Code=1506" for the TVA on the Motoscan app. That's the only EC I really ever seen on that app from the MCU. And of course that unit sits on that arm between 3-4. The unit has been tested and measured many times along with confirming power to it.

P1506 BMW - Idle Speed Control Valve Open Solenoid Control Circuit Signal High
 

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Jean had some pictures way back then about the OEM throttle shafts seals? BMW/Bing updated that in 04,update was SS throttle shaft on needle bearings w/better sealing.

Earlyer like yours (and my 03) would have brass shaft/bushings and flattish seals.Some wear at my shafts/bushings and the appearance of blackish residue (dirt) by the shafts inside the TBs.And some slight binding of the plates at temps close to freezing so TVA might not have opened the throttles as it should in cold weather I had cold start problems.So I updated to the later version then which I balanced later.
...
...
Pierre,
Cannot see inside TB on his photo as he had rags in hole HOWEVER I can see the BING part number on the lower throttle cable bracket attachment (if I zoomed his photo). His last 3 digits looks like 401 or 411 so I am 99% sure he had 1st generation Throttle-bodies with bushings on shaft AND having brass shafts.

Later / better models have double sealed needle bearings on shafts AND shafts made of stainless. These have last 3 digits as 403 (no cruise-control pulley) or 413 if cruise-control cable pulley is present. As you have said, these show up mostly on 2004 or 2005 models. BMW did the same improvements for the K1200LT throttle-bodies on their 2nd generation on 2005-2009 models - these have 36mm diam instead of 38 mm so they cannot be retrofit to a K1200RS.
 

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Ok won't get to pulling the Tb's and swapping that spring back to the "heavy Handed Throttle" setting until tomorrow.

Just one other thing to mention is that I have a consistent "Error Code=1506" for the TVA on the Motoscan app. That's the only EC I really ever seen on that app from the MCU. And of course that unit sits on that arm between 3-4. The unit has been tested and measured many times along with confirming power to it.

P1506 BMW - Idle Speed Control Valve Open Solenoid Control Circuit Signal High
You just cannot make sense of these MotoScan codes as they try to map OBD2 codes AND these Motronic ECU are NOT OBD2 compliant. In a GS911 or the BMW dealer computer , there is no such 1506 code. Neither does the description "idle Speed Control Valve Open Solenoid Control Circuit Signal High" has any exact match.

You may just have an old code from previous work you did - anytime the TVA is left unplugged (disconnected) or unbolted from TB with ignition ON , the ECU will log one of these 3 codes - it will stay in code history until you clear it:

5381 : “Idle switch short circuit to positive or open circuit” (TVA was unplugged before ignition ON)
5382 : “Idle switch, open circuit since ignition ON" (TVA was unplugged while ignition ON)
1285 : “Idle Regulator, signal implausible” (TVA pulled out from bracket, but plugged . TVA piston goes
to end expecting a Throttle /TPS feedback move but does not see it)
 

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That TVA fault I can introduce at will.Crank up throttle and slowly release to the stop fault will show as the cables/grip etc friction may hold the arm from the TVA.

Not a saved fault.Snap throttle back even with ignition On,re-read faults and it has disappeared.

Probably the missing spring?

I just read Jean's post,I moved my bike to the shed so can't confirm the wording with the GS911,I might do that later.
 

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Discussion Starter #174
OK

Yes I believe it may have to do with the spring relief I've done and will be reversing. Will see after putting back if there is any change.
 

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5382 but not from unplugging the TVA,just a slow throttle release before ignition On.
IMG_20210321_145807.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #176
yep ok!

The Hall Sensor errors are the only others I see and that's when reading codes before starting (normal).
 

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Discussion Starter #177
So pulled the TB's and placed the "spring" back where it would have been from Factory. Reinstalled the TB"s on the lower boots and performed another "SMOKE" test from top of TB's. No "escape" seen at bottom of boots or the TPS.

Put Air cleaner back on, Tank and started. Idling was perfect with no fluctuation of RPM. Took bike for a 15 mile ride.

Again, running rough with mirrors vibrating and can feel through feet during steady light throttle and WOT feels like not running on 4.

Haven't threw the nanometer back on yet. Don't expect a difference.

Just a couple pictures showing Blue Paint "everywhere". Both ends of TVA bar, all three Adjuster screws.

Differently running "rich" gas mileage probably close to my F150.

Boy I forgot how solid that bike is. Like a tank on rails!!
 

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Discussion Starter #178
Ok

Hooked up the nanometer and started bike. Idling fine. 10K.

1st picture is just reading the nanometer at idle.
2nd picture is reading nanometer pushing on the pin/spring arrangement between 3-4.

FYI - TVA error message gone!

LAMBDA reading - Fast Switching between 40 - 850 or so.
 

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O2 sensor reading 40mV to 850mV?

Not what it should be:

 

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Discussion Starter #180
ok

I've just read through the HEX CODE info on the O2 again.

To be clear those are the most extreme ranges I'm seeing on the monitor. With most of the time fluctuating up and down between 100-200 and 600-700mv. And then between 400 and 600 at other times within sequence.

I cant graph or I would.

Also note I've done text previously on the O2 (bench test with heat) and also the wiring from MCU. I can repeat those test. And in any event I'll be buying a new one for the bike.

So, isn't one of the test to unplug the O2 and it show run ok just rich?

On normal carbs I know about adjusting them for Stoichiometic 14.7! I've installed an AFR gauge in my 64 GTO and Demon carb which I've rebuilt and adjusted for running. It fluctuates also because of the xtreme cam in the set up.

The air-fuel ratio for theoretical optimum combustion in gasoline engines is 14.7 parts of air, to 1 part of fuel or 14.7:1, where parts are measured in mass of air and mass of fuel. This theoretical optimum ratio is known as the stoichiometric air-fuel ratio.
 
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