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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got my new-to-me 2009 K1300GT a couple of months ago and love almost everything about it. It was an upgrade from a Yamaha FZ6 and the size and power are very impressive and I'm loving it. Then the stalling issue started happening. Like others I've read about, I thought maybe it was operator error when downshifting coming to a stop, but realized that wasn't the case. Searched (and still searching) the forums and recalls and wherever else looking for THE answer to this problem. Took my bike back to place of purchase for them to check into the problem and again, like others I've read about, the service techs couldn't replicate the problem. They checked valve clearances, checked air filter, and changed the plugs and told me there was nothing else they could do for me at the time. All no charge, I might add. The next day when taking the bike out to winter storage, it stalled halfway there at a traffic light. DOES ANYONE HAVE AN ANSWER FOR ME??? I love the bike and don't want to work around a problem if a remedy exists. I have all winter to do more research and welcome any and all suggestions from other K-Bike owners. Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
As the respondent above suggests, checking the software date is a good first step. You've had a goodly amount of work done gratis by your local dealer, which my one-and-only would not think of. Hell they've told me straight "we don't work in bikes over 10 years old). Eff them, and all their offspring. Fortunately my bike has been pretty reliable although with the pandemic I'm not using it for a daily commuter... only go into the office 3x/week.

But... "they all do that" well at least many do, if you've dug into the forum here. Mine does, sometimes, but I've subconsciously learned to keep a light twist on the throttle when coming to a stop. This is effective almost all the time.

Suggestions....
1) Get your software date checked, update if/as your dealer will. Note, some dealers have been known to be less than truthful on occasion and the general trend here is suspicion. This is exacerbated by the near-complete dearth of technical material made available to owners and dealer techs alike Yes, dealer techs can be just as far in the dark as we are, which simply should not be. But you didn't come here to listen to how great these bikes are, did you? Be sure your bike has received all appropriate recalls, there were several.
2) Use 92 octane gas if you can get locally. I ran 89 octane with10% ethanol for the first four years of my ownership, and suffered the frequent hot stall thing. I use premium now, which still contains 10% corn juice, can't avoid that, and still have some very occasional stalling.
3) A GS-911 could log battery voltage in real time. Heat is the enemy of batteries, and the K1300 batt gets pretty warm. Some say to use the metal jacketed Odyssey battery. The do seem to last a long time, I just had mine load tested (plastic case) after five years and was told it was "Just fine". Data point: my bike didn't care if it was warmed up or not, it might stall.
4) There's an auxiliary wiring harness that puts more copper between the battery positive and starter relay, then to starter, the better to carry the amp load of starting. The purpose of this mod is to address the no-hot-restart condition, where after you've stalled, the bike won't crank, as if you battery is dead. You can make this mod yourself rather than buying from a dealer, there's a thread here somewhere that details it. You'll need handy skills and will have to strip the tupperware. Be sure to mark which screws go where.
5) K1200's had a recall for warped airboxes and the idle air control valve(?) in the bottom of the airbox would get gunked up and have to be cleaned. Not for the faint of heart to remove the airbox, I dunno your skills or determination level. Supposedly, K13's are not affected.
6) Make sure your throttle cables are appropriately snug (something I've been meaning to do). My theory is that loose cables may allow the throttle plate to wobble a bit when not strongly into acceleration/deceleration mode, giving varying signals to the ECU on a time frame the ECU can't smooth out. This is pure speculation on my part, but a bike 12 years old could likely do with some cable attention.
7) You can get your ECU's fuel map remapped/adjusted. User Botus here has little but scorn for expensive tweaking of adaptation values, but others have reported great things. Not inexpensive, and should be followed up with a dyno session attended by someone deeply skilled. I take no stance but to observe that if a full power air/fuel ratio arrives a little earlier in the rpm range, you'll feel more power at the probably expense of fuel economy. Some do, some don't. In taking no stance, I won't name those offering remapping, you can locate them without much work.
8) Then of course there's always aftermarket ECU's or piggyback units such as the Power Commander.
9) There are two gizmos that alter the ambient air temp sensor readings that are reported to the ECU. I got one and it made no difference. Still, better minds than mine infer that hot stalling is related to a too-lean condition, and the aforementioned gizmos are supposed to cure that. One of them, IIRC, is adjustable.
10) In days now gone by, R bike owners in particular removed the charcoal canister from the evaporative control system. This does not seem to be a frequent or popular mod with K44 bikes (K1200 and K1300).
11) Search this forum.
12) As you go forward, report back your successes and fails. The group has not generally resolved this yet, and need to. There's always the possibility you or your tech will find a nugget and beat a path to your door. Really.
Aloha Honolulu! Wow, great detailed response, thanks very much. Like I said, bike's in storage now for the winter so I have the time to research and find out as much as I can. You've certainly helped me do that! It's a shame that BMW hasn't resolved this for all of us. It has unfortunately left a sour taste in my mouth being my first purchase of a BMW. I will definitely keep the group in the loop and hopefully find something in the spring. Thanks again! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
the K1300 GT only has one CAT sensor so its dead cheap to sort the dodgy std mapping using an AF-XiED addon - everyone who has it raves about them - the rest is mostly lies and junk

the bike was designed to run on high octane unleaded - in Europe that's 99 with the standard junk at 95 but of course USA measure with a different system


check the cam sprocket jump protector is in place and valve timing is correct
check valve clearances
reset idle stepper motors
get the fuel pressure checked out
fill with super unleaded (highest normally available)
make sure the engine MAP part number is as per photo "8522505"
reset engine adaptions do 150 miles
fit this (as the K1300 GT only has one CAT sensor its cheap) AF-XiED For BMW F650- 700- 800 (Twins) & K1200/ 1300 & Husky TR650 O2 Sensor Manipulator
ride it about and see how you get on
Cheers botus and thank you for your great response as well. The information regarding the Sensor Manipulator has me quite interested. Thank you for the link and accompanying image. Like I've told the other respondents, I have the whole winter (thanks Canada!) to look into this and will be getting back at it in the spring. Your information will definitely help. The high octane gas is something that I've got to be more careful about going forward as I realized that the Costco gas I was pumping into my tank was disturbingly low even though it called itself "Premium". Thanks again, I may be contacting you in the spring for some more info. Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I have to agree with, "botus", these bikes are designed to run on High Octane Fuel, I`m in the UK always run on super unleaded (Highest Octane available) and I`ve had no problems in 10 years.

Good Luck
Thanks Axit2, here's hoping that's all it takes. Like TF below, I've already looked into purchasing Techron for next season as well.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You live in Canada, Chevron stations sell 94 octane gas. Makes a K bike sing. Your bike could possibly benefit from some computer trickery. I suggest trying a AxFixed or Booster plug. I use a booster plug and my K bike stalling at stops ended. On the other hand the K1300GT has a reputation for what you say and worse. A friend of mine gave up on his and bought a FJR, it was that serious and no dealer could help him.
Cheers Beech and thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, there are no Chevron dealers outside of BC, otherwise I'd be using it. Checked out the Booster Plug link and it looks promising. I'm sure hoping I can find a remedy for this annoying and unsafe issue. I have to say though that I'm very impressed with all of your responses so far and look forward to some more. If only BMW Canada would reply so fast! Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It is frustrating to have a great bike suffering from some unknown or hard to find problem. I'm going to install one of the booster plugs in my new to me K13S but right now it shows no issues. The plug also smooths out some fueling issues or did on my other K13S.
Cheers Beech, I hear ya!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The warping airbox and IAC valve issue was fixed in the K1200's by model year 2008 so that should not effect you. After I replaced my airbox then I was eligible for the software update and this fixed half my problems. But this was on my 2006 K1200s so the GT may be different. But I still had an occasional clutch in bike dies and a wandering idle at higher altitudes. But this was so infrequent I just started blipping the throttle when coming to a stop and rode that way until last spring. Then I did fuel tests for S & G's. First I ran two weekends (1,200 miles) with only non-ethanol premium fuel. The clutch in bike dies problem got way worse. Then I switched to Chevron premium (10% ethanol) exclusively for two weekends and the problems went away. Even tried to recreate the clutch in bike dies situation with no luck. So my impression is fuel quality is very important on these things. Not just octane rating but quality of fuel (probably mostly age WTFKs). I have run only Chevron ever since with one exception where I had to get something else. Lucky me I usually ride the same routes over and again so know where to fuel up. Always worth a try to find who has the best fuel where you ride for the best results.

As a side note I tried the booster plug and it did not seem to do anything.
Thanks for your response mrdryclutch. Finding the ideal premium high octane fuel is first on my list of things to do next spring! Although it's strange, because I've heard the opposite from a number of people including my service tech that say I should stay away from anything with ethanol in it? I suppose that's turning out to be the most frustrating thing about this problem...there are so many different remedies/situations rolling around out there. It would be FANTASTIC if BMW would just pony up and make a proper fix available to all of us!! There's the dreamer in me coming out. Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
All very interesting information on ethanol, thanks for sharing everybody. Now I have to find out who's got the highest octane fuel without using it here in my neck of the woods. Cheers everyone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
My K13GT did the stalling thing the first summer I had it (2018) and never since. It happened only in hot weather when coming down from high speed riding with the throttle shut right off; when opening up again it would briefly just die.

I never found why it went away but I do use Esso Premium fuel, which is 99 octane (on the UK's scale) and apparently has no Ethanol at all in it (it's marked E5 so could have up to 5% but Esso just don't put it in) and also twice the standard amount of detergent. The bike hadn't been ridden much for several years before I got it (at 14,800 miles) so maybe my regular, fairly hard riding and use of ethanol-free, high detergent fuel un-gummed something.

I think I read somewhere that this problem was due to some sort of fuel breather getting blocked but as mine sorted itself out I never looked into it. It's really well calibrated now - on the lean side as they are designed to be, so sure I'll get a little more power when I fit a PCV but I want to save the planet so am happy for now (and I guess should try to switch to 10% ethanol fuel at some point)
That's interesting Duncan. It would seem that your regular use of the high octane fuel has saved you the annoyance that I'm experiencing (and many others too). Thanks for your input! Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
some further thorts...
1. Thinking that BMW will step up to the plate on bikes now some 16+ years old is futile. If they were ever going to, it would have been done by now. They have little to lose, and no upside when a few cranky old futs gripe about how their far-off-warranty machines work. I'm one of those.
2. If anyone is going to gripe about fuel quality, they're likely chasing a moving target. Fuel age? I've used 7-year old fuel from a resto project a friend did. He had a full tank sitting for SEVEN YEARS in his garage; I being the cheapskate that I am, could not let him simply dispose of it (what could he have done?). I ran some first in my lawnmower, without issues; then in my bike, again without issues. That seven years of storage was in average humidity of 70-plus percent.
3. Back in the 80s, BMW and other car makers ran into problems with fuel condensing in a gummy mess on the back and stems of intake valves. BMW tried a number of things and physical deposit removal via walnut shell blasting seemed to cure the issues - temporarily. It turned out that changing EPA regulations had altered the composition of fuel sold nationwide, leading to deposit issues. In response and after several years of poor consumer experiences, a new federal regulation required a certain minimum detergent additive level in fuels. BMW (and others, including Toyota) found the detergent level insufficient and formulated among themselves a new fuel standard, which came to be known as Top Tier, having FIVE TIMES the federally mandated detergent content. That seemed to solve the problems of the 80s. (That direct injection engines are now/again experiencing somewhat similar problems is a different matter I'll not go into). SOOOOOOO.... if you can, find out whether your local fuel supplier is giving you Top Tier gas. Here in Hawaii, it's all Top Tier, yet we (I) still have stalling issues. I've learned not to let the throttle go to rest at stops if the engine is past the high-idle warmup mode.
4. I got one of the O2 sensor signal manipulators that makes the ECU think it's 20 degrees colder, thus supposedly richening the mixture. As pointed out above, the ECU soon "learns" of this and the device has been of little use. The AX-FIED or whatever, which unit I don't have, may be better, it certainly should be for the greater cost.

Some say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. There's "knowledge" floating about in reference to the hot stall issue, but no one seems to have reliably solved it, suggesting that either a) the problem has multiple causes and no one has correctly all of them, or b) some can sort the most pressing issue, leading to a subjectively better experience, but see a).
Thanks for your thorts Honolulu. From one cranky old fut to another, it's a damn shame that BMW has little to lose and no upside when having to deal with us. But it's soooo true, they didn't make any money off my purchase did they? Will this stop me from buying another BMW down the road, probably not, but it sure as hell won't be a K13! It's looking like the purchase of an AF-XiED is in my future. Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
I bought an AF-XiED & I'll let this list know how it works for me.

Given it's now winter in Michigan and my motivation to work on the bike is low, it may be a while. But I did pull the fuel tank yesterday, so I'm that far along. I'll also install additional starter circuit wiring to address the restart problem. Will probably buy the BMW harness kit 12 41 8 532 735 rather than trying to cobble together something.
Ahhh yes, winter...the one reason I love/hate living here. :rolleyes: Oh well, it gives us lots of time to figure out how to fix our bike problems. AF-XiED for me too. Where did you buy yours? Beemerboneyard?
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
I have a new-in-bag BMW starter harness kit that I never used (the dealer put one on my GT after I'd already bought this one but hadn't installed it yet).

I'll dig it out of the garage and make your decent deal on it. :)
How much you want for it? :sneaky:
 
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