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Discussion Starter #1
I'm going against the crowd here and saying that 6.0 did nothing to improve
my slow speed throttle condition and now causes my bike to backfire.

I have the Laser Duo-tech Slip-on along with Evoluzione Race Filters.

I've done the ECU reset to no avail.

Question - why is it that just about every slip-on muffler I've ever installed
requires a richer fuel setting via jet kit or power commander, yet for this bike,
the aftermarket exhaust companies say the pipes work on a stock bike?
Please explain?

I cannot live with the popping, so I'm looking for suggestions.
 

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I am also experiencing the increased "popping" on deceleration with a similiar set-up (LeoVince w/race filters). While I don't mind it, I wonder if a bike with a stock pipe and filter set-up has any similiar issues after the upgrade to 6.0?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
MaineRoads,


The more aggressive I ride (e.g. 5-8k rpm's), combined with uphill/downhill sections,the more popping...it's unacceptable to me to live with it.

Either I get the fuel mapping right, or the KS goes up for sale.
 

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Backfire..

I've had release 6.0, Evolucione air box modification and a Remus CF slip-on for awhile now. I have reset the ECU and the throttle positioning sensor and have noticed the following:

Constant low speed maneuvering (throttle "snatchiness") is about the same. I'm used to it and don't find it "snatchy" anymore.

Upshifts under full, and mostly full, throttle have an acceleration "delay" of about 1/2 a second and then acceleration picks up in earnest again. It is as though the person who "mapped" the chip wanted to make sure that after an up-shift the acceleration was not so abrupt as to bring the front the front wheel off the ground...unexpectedly. For me, I don't think I like the new mapping and I may go to a power commander to maximize performance.

When at high rpm and them going off-throttle there is some "rumbling" backfire. At times, it will sound like a Formula 1 engine. It's not very loud, but is definitely there. I will admit to secretly (at least before this post) thinking it's kind of cool sounding.


.
 

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BillyOmaha said:
For me, I don't think I like the new mapping and I may go to a power commander to maximize performance. .
Is there a "Power Commander" currently available for the K1200S? I was under the impression they hadn't developed one yet and I don't see one for the K1200S on their web site.
 

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Exact same setup, but....

I have the same Laser and race filters and the decel popping. But, to me, the low speed hunting IS improved and the high rev. accel has gone from good to fantastic.

I am, as far as I can tell, I'm, the ONLY one to ever report running his bike sans filters and sans silencer. You want WOW? Try this sometime if you want a seat-of-the- pants understanding of what the engine is really capable of. However, the throttle response is very scary (to me at least) and difficult to control in 1st & 2nd because the throttle acts more like a toggle switch. I can now understand BMW's attempt to allow some slight delay in throttle... Not being an expert, I almost lost it a couple of times when I came off the throttle a bit to fast and opened it a bit too much - instant, and I mean INSTANT too much power..

Also, the "other" forum has long discussions about power commanders not being usable, EVER, unless you hire a very good dino operator to do the programing for your particular bike. Right now there is only one guy listed and he is in Southern California.

I don't exactly understand the complaints because this bike is a compromise between speed, stability and comfort. I cannot find another bike whose particular compromises fit me better. I would like it to be perfect, but it only "perfect" above about 60 mph to about 120 mph. This high(ish) speed "perfection" is why I keep the bike.

Good luck, but I think getting everything to your complete satisfaction is a life long hunt and in a street legal bike, its only possible to get a set of compromises that each individual has to live with.

sportrider said:
I'm going against the crowd here and saying that 6.0 did nothing to improve
my slow speed throttle condition and now causes my bike to backfire.

I have the Laser Duo-tech Slip-on along with Evoluzione Race Filters.

I've done the ECU reset to no avail.

Question - why is it that just about every slip-on muffler I've ever installed
requires a richer fuel setting via jet kit or power commander, yet for this bike,
the aftermarket exhaust companies say the pipes work on a stock bike?
Please explain?

I cannot live with the popping, so I'm looking for suggestions.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Personally I'm through making excuses for the bike. It should be perfect - no
stuttering, no backfiring, no if's, ands, butts. I can live with the clunky gearbox, but the engine and fuel management should be spot on.

If I wanted backfiring and stumbling, I WOULD HAVE BOUGHT A HARLEY!
 

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Sportrider, I also notice an increase in popping and backfire after coming off the throttle on higher rpms. Would putting the stock pipe and filters back on resolve the problem? I'm thinking the mapping is not set-up for the aftermarket set-up and is not "readjusting" to the change. Has anyone gone back to stock to check this out?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I suspect the guys that are running stock exhaust are hearing a subdued version of the burbling/farting/backfiring. When we increase the "flow" for the exhaust, there needs to be a corresponding increase in fuel. Something these aftermarket
exhaust companies failed to mention. Problem is, there's not too many option's for us yet to adjust the fuel maps.

Disheartening at the least...
 

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mark5lam said:
Is there a "Power Commander" currently available for the K1200S? I was under the impression they hadn't developed one yet and I don't see one for the K1200S on their web site.
Howdy Mark,

Thanks for the prompt; I sent an e-mail to DynoJet and asked about a Power Commander for the new K bikes (K-R, K-S and K-GT, their reply is below:


From: Dusty Schaller [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent:
Tuesday, May 30, 200612:13 PM
To:
Bill Turner
Subject: RE: BMW new K bike applications?


Bill,

We have looked into these models and unfortunately we will NOT be releasing a Power Commander at this time. Thanks for the inquiry.

Dustin Schaller

Powersports Technical Support Manager
Dynojet Research
800-992-4993
www.dynojet.com
www.powercommander.com

.
 

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I've noted some muted backfires when blipping\chopping the throttle now but the low end drivability is MUCH better from my pov. It seems to run better when its hot. If i stop after a long extended ride it fires up and idles smooth, no snatch whatsoever. Its still not perfect throttle response wise; i still get the occasional huh? response when i whack it open. Certainly an improvement, ymmv
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I guess I would expect 100 different answers...coming off a carburated jab bike, with no snatchiness and no backfires, I kinda expected at least that with the BMW.

The bike(imo) does not live up to it's reputation YET!

I'm not giving up - I'll figure I'll dump another grand into it before I do that...
 

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try the stock pipe. I just had the 6.0 update, and I have no popping, and now I am 100% happy with the bike.....I was 90% happy before....
 

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eric2 said:
I've noted some muted backfires when blipping\chopping the throttle now but the low end drivability is MUCH better from my pov. It seems to run better when its hot. If i stop after a long extended ride it fires up and idles smooth, no snatch whatsoever. Its still not perfect throttle response wise; i still get the occasional huh? response when i whack it open. Certainly an improvement, ymmv

I agree. I've now got a full Akrapovic system fitted - steel headers and CF hex can - and there is some burbling on deceleration, which doesn't bother me. Low speed hunting is gone. Top end acceleration is much freer but I think this is due to the Akra system rather than version 6. Fuel economy is much better. We had a high speed ride out last Sunday and the fuel light hasn't come on after 140 miles
 

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My first impression is at the link provided above by gan1hck, after riding the bike for about 350 miles on the weekend I haven't change my mind and still think that the 6.0 is a huge improvement (know sportrider would not agree).

I do not know what the reasons for your problems are guys, I have the Laser Hot Cam full system, original air filters, I did the chip resetting after the software update, but even before that the bike transformed into a smooth pleasure to ride machine and now my ONLY complain is that I can't hear the engine at 100miles/hour. NO popping or backfire on deceleration or at any rpm.

By the way I was informed by the Laser representative NOT to install aftermarket air filters because, according to him it would change the fuel mixture(ratio to air).
The information is from February this year when I was ordering the exhaust and I can't argue if he is right or wrong about the air filters, there could be some people here who know better and explain it to us.

Good luck with all the troubles and hope an answer would be found soon.
 

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I've seen the decell backfire issue on other bike forums, particularly one for the current 1050cc Speed Triple Triumph. S3 owners were getting the decell problem when higher flow exhausts were installed. The majority of the problem seemed to be cured by installing a new "TORS" map supplied by Triumph. I don't know if the KS and KR have an exhaust reburn / injection setup but some S3 owners also claimed success by blanking off this emission control.

I think it's reasonable to suggest that there will be a limit to the range of fuel mixture adjustment available to the standard ECU. Perhaps the exhaust manufacturers only look at the FI management from the POV of their product being the only contributor to additional flow when in fact multiple changes may be significantly increasing flow to the limit point of the ECU programming. Perhaps Ken from Evoluzione can shed some light on what is available in the way of overriding or intercepting the current ECU mapping.

I went over earlier posts from Ken (3 Feb 06, 14 March 06) regarding successful power upgrade mods when I started the "Maximum Power Modifications" thread. Two engine management "boxes" were referred to in those posts - a Dimsport control box (www.dimsport.it) and another ECU "interceptor" box. Put simply if Ken has sorted out maps that DO work and the hardware is reliable why would you bother to "re-invent the wheel " yourself - fine tuning from a close start point sounds like a plan. The Dimsport site shows a unit specifically for the KS and does claim to have maps to do the job. Techlusion may also offer a solution but when I checked their site there didn't appear to be a product variant for the KS. Maybe a "twinned" system of 2 available units used on the R1200GS would produce results (big maybe - CanBus is common to both GS and KS)

The BMW engineers have created a very high compression engine that's built to GO but they are constrained by the compromises the emission restrictions require and the sensitivities required for low engine speed manners. Add to this mix a multitude of gas flow changes (and perhaps improvements) made by owners and the task becomes even more complex. Dynojet / Powercommander don't want to go there - either its too hard or the projected total sales volumes aren't worth the development costs.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I talked to a gentlemen today from Laser. He basically agreed with everything I've noticed in regards to low speed throttling and backfiring. He's witnessed the same results when his bikes had the 6.0 software installed. Pointed out that it's also a safety issue - the last thing you need when your riding aggressively is for your bike to stumble when trying to stand it up coming out of a curve.

Seems like the solution is the DIMSPORT module, combined with a tuning shop
that knows what their doing. (other than wait for BMW to come out with 7.0 to fix 6.0:wtf )

Does anyone know of a good tuning shop with a dyno in the Atlanta area?
 

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Latest update, I removed the evo race filters and replaced with stock set-up (left on leovince race pipe). reset throttle and went for quick ride. No Backfiring :ricky . Slight burbbling on deceleration, but nothing else. This is how it sounded (with) race filters and pipe before the 6.0 upgrade. I'm going to leave this set-up for a while and see how it behaves.
 
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