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Discussion Starter #1
For 20k miles I've used Bosch oil filters on my R-bike at about 1/3 the cost. There are many other filters available too. Apparently these all fit the K12 also but they are painted. BMW filters arean't painted. Since the oil filter on the K bikes is flooded on the outside too, there is some concern that the paint might either come off or contaminate the oil. Anybody out there using an alternate filter? Any thoughts on using a painted filter? thanks, Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The bosch part number is 72161 and Kragen can order it for you. It went up from $4 to $5 each. The R-bike guys have a huge cross reference of alternate parts, many of which will fit on the K-bikes. I'll find it and post it later. --Jerry
 

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It's way back in time, but I remembered seeing a post that claimed the BMW stock filter has some sort of over pressure bypass built inside it, whereas many alternates don't. I think the poster had actually sawn filters apart! If anybody can remember this, please remind me. It's probably more important for regular starts in very cold climes.



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Interesting, and very possible. German technology. I do know that the Vokswagen Vanagon OEM filters have a valve inside. Replacements that don't will risk damage.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
fastjohnny said:
Replacements that don't will risk damage.
Your statement is very strong. You sound like you know what you're talking about. Please explain. Are you talking about the antidrainback valve some filters have or the bypass valve that all filters have? --Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter #7
voxmagna said:
It's way back in time, but I remembered seeing a post that claimed the BMW stock filter has some sort of over pressure bypass built inside it, whereas many alternates don't. I think the poster had actually sawn filters apart! If anybody can remember this, please remind me. It's probably more important for regular starts in very cold climes.
All filters have bypass valves at various pressures. Some have antidrainback valves but BMW doesn't need one because of the orientation. Here is the link you're thinking of:

http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/index.shtml

Cheers,
Jerry
 

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When you start up a K12 on mornings below freezing and the engine oil is heavy, Does the motor have its own pressure relief valve to bypass the filter, or does it rely on what may be inside the filter and are we sure that all non-oems have it? If the bypass is in the motor before the filter back to the sump, this doesn't help because whilst oil pressure is maintained, it's going nowhere except returning to the sump until the motor warms up.

I can't see how orientation helps this situation.



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Discussion Starter #9
voxmagna said:
When you start up a K12 on mornings below freezing and the engine oil is heavy, Does the motor have its own pressure relief valve to bypass the filter, or does it rely on what may be inside the filter and are we sure that all non-oems have it? If the bypass is in the motor before the filter back to the sump, this doesn't help because whilst oil pressure is maintained, it's going nowhere except returning to the sump until the motor warms up.

I can't see how orientation helps this situation.
You're mixing two different vavles. Orientation is important on a filter that is not mounted vertically like the BMW filter. BMW OEM filters do NOT have an antidrainback valve.

As for a bypass valve, what do you think would happen if you didn't have a bypass valve in the morning? You seem to be implying that the engine might be damaged. You are correct, it might, but not the way you are thinking. The oil pump is a positive displacement pump which means it will be pumping even if the discharge pressure goes up. I don't know if the K12 has an oil pressure regulator but even if it does, it is set at a very high pressure. The paper in your filter isn't going to hold back the pressure but it will probably hold back enough pressure to blow the rubber gasket (I've seen this happen on a pickup truck when the bypass filter failed closed). Then all the oil drains out and the engine will be damaged...ooops, the K12 has the filter in a chamber so even if your oil filter blows out, the engine won't be damaged.

I've never seen an oil filter without an integral bypass valve for when it it clogged or oil viscosity is high (this can be minimized by using the proper multiviscosity oil for your climate). If you know of one, please let me know.

Perhaps you're one of the guys who believes in always using OEM BMW parts. If you are, I don't want to change your mind. But I like looking at aftermarket parts, many of which are superior (eg, ohlins shocks) or cheaper (bosch oil filter). What I don't like is people who make skeptical posts, implying great damage to the bike if you don't worship the BMW gods at part purchasing time. I don't think that's what you were trying to do but I'll admit that perhaps I tend to over react.

Cheers, Jerry
 

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Stephejl said:
Your statement is very strong. You sound like you know what you're talking about. Please explain. Are you talking about the antidrainback valve some filters have or the bypass valve that all filters have? --Jerry

Sorry for the confusion, Jerry. My comment was intended as a comparison only. I was referring to the Volkswagen Vanagon filter (something I do know a little about) and meant that it was possible that the BMW filter had a similar characteristic. Good luck and let us know what you find out. Thanks. Cheers.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
No problem. Since nobody responded to the original question about the paint I think I'll take a filter and soak it in oil for a few months to see if the paint holds up. --Jerry
 

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My motto is 'All aftermarket parts sold as equivalent to BMW are the same until proven different'

If a bike was in Warranty, the difference test would fail, 'cos your dealer might refuse a warranty claim where non BMW parts were fitted by the owner. I doubt that most of us would have the technical competence to argue the aftermarket equivalence versus oem.

Ultimately I take my own responsibility for the decision and it's probably true for most of us, even though others may argue pro's and cons for alternatives.

Understanding the KRS bike specifics keeps us better informed and helps make our mind up whether to go aftermarket or oem.

Some owners of older K's poorly served by dealers may have no choice but to consider aftermarket alternatives.



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waste of time?

Stephejl said:
No problem. Since nobody responded to the original question about the paint I think I'll take a filter and soak it in oil for a few months to see if the paint holds up. --Jerry
..probably a waste of time unless you heat it up to engine temp a couple hundred times during that period...
 

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new FRAM bike filters

I just checked ou tthe fram site and they started producing a filter for the K bikes. As luck has it, cyclegear (local bike shop) actually carries the part. I was thinking that paint might be an issue, but it is an all metal filter with some id stamping, which is very similar to the BMW filters.

My knowledge base for the inner engine process and how the oil is pumped around is extremely limited. Since my warrenty isn't up yet, I am somewhat hesitant to put some recently developed aftermarket part into my motor. I contacted my local dealer and they mentioned there could be possible warenty issues if the tech could trace the problem to the faulty aftermarket part. Hence the warrenty would not cover the repair.

So as it stands, after I hit 36k, I'll start tweaking the engine. I'll start by installing the rheinwest cam & chip system, maybe and an HID kit and probably PIAA's, and yes - probably a boesch or fram oil filter.

ONON-
Mark
 

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voxmagna said:
When you start up a K12 on mornings below freezing and the engine oil is heavy, Does the motor have its own pressure relief valve to bypass the filter, or does it rely on what may be inside the filter and are we sure that all non-oems have it? .
Yes. There is a pressure relief. It is in the oil pump itself ....a spring loaded plunger that prevents excessive oil pressure. I noticed it when I had the motor of my K-bike apart.

To my knowledge, ALL motors have this (for example, there is one I noticed in the motor of my '90 Jetta when I had that apart).

Bob.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
milkman said:
..probably a waste of time unless you heat it up to engine temp a couple hundred times during that period...
Well if I get negative results (the paint dissolves) then I would have my answer. --Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Pathogen7 said:
I just checked ou tthe fram site and they started producing a filter for the K bikes. As luck has it, cyclegear (local bike shop) actually carries the part. I was thinking that paint might be an issue, but it is an all metal filter with some id stamping, which is very similar to the BMW filters.

My knowledge base for the inner engine process and how the oil is pumped around is extremely limited. Since my warrenty isn't up yet, I am somewhat hesitant to put some recently developed aftermarket part into my motor. I contacted my local dealer and they mentioned there could be possible warenty issues if the tech could trace the problem to the faulty aftermarket part. Hence the warrenty would not cover the repair.

So as it stands, after I hit 36k, I'll start tweaking the engine. I'll start by installing the rheinwest cam & chip system, maybe and an HID kit and probably PIAA's, and yes - probably a boesch or fram oil filter.

ONON-
Mark
Fram is the last on my list of preferred aftermarket vendors. The filter is not new--they've been making the 6063 for years and it's listed on the oilhead discussion boards as a possible replacement. However, I doubt they sell many since it is the same price as the OEM filter and I've never seen it in a shop. At least you found one. Given this choice, I'd stick with the BMW filter.

As for warranty law, remember that it is very specific in the US. The onus is on the warrantor to show that what you did caused the problem. They will often try to bluff by saying that you repainted your fairing so the warranty doesn't cover your oil pump failure. Using a purpose designed aftermarket oil filter would be difficult for them to claim it was your fault if you stood your ground. The risk would be as you imply that FRAM really did screw up and they find parts of the oil filter plugging the oil orifices in the engine or something like that. Also, if you're still doing a lot of business with your dealer you might want to use BMW parts just to keep their attitude toward you positive.

Cheers
Jerry
 
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