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Discussion Starter #1
It seems BMW is pricing themselfs out of sales, I`m in the market for another bike , but the new GT around 20k NO WAY. Yahama looks good. Price is what BMW should be. What do you think?
 

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My .02

Steve,

I paid about $17,500 for my K1200RS in 1999.

It now has about 72,000 miles with only one repair (recent rear main seal leak).

I figure if I ride it another 5 years and then drive it into a canal or just give it away, it has cost me $1,750/yr for basic ownership/depreciation (exclusive of gas/tires/routine maint - which you'd have on any bike).

Hopefully I'll get SOMETHING for it down the road, so that should result in even less overall cost.

Yamaha makes fine bikes, and I've owned a few (below). The Yamaha would make a great sport-tourer - assuming the heat issue has been addressed.

OTOH, Yamahas seem to wear a bit more cosmetically, esp. if left out in the elements. Rusting fasteners, eroded clearcoat, etc. BMWs generally wear very well in this regard.

In short, if you plan on keeping a bike for the long haul, it can be worthwhile to spend a little more. If you turn them over every few years, probably not.
 

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Prices are going up however options and technical aspects are getting more and better.I switched from harley about four years ago so maybe sticker shock isn't so shocking to me.I do know that for the same price of a harley you get a lot more motorcycle with the BMW.My service cost and time in the shop has greatly reduced. The Japanese bikes are fine motorcycles I'm sure but they ain't no BMW.I will pay the price and ride the BMW's.In my opinion there is no better motorcycle that does so many things so well.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
fasteddieb, my problem is , I don`t keep them long, I`ve had 3 BMW`s since 02, I`ve had an 02 k1200rs an 02 r1150rt and an 04 r1150rt., I currently have an 04 st4s Ducati, all great bikes but I like to change them, I haven`t found that one keeper yet and I may never. It just seems like too much money.
 

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Essentially, I agree. True with many of their car models as well. The dollar vs. euro is part of the situation, but mostly, BMW's strategic target market is the deep pocketed customer who "aspires" to have a cutting edge and innovative bike, different from the Asian mainstream... and are willing to pay for it. The pricing reflects this. Means less volume for BMW, but higher margins. Asia on the other hand is willing to have more volume at lower margins (this is my assumption). This latter strategy does lower handling and inventory costs. BMW (wisely imo) chooses not to be in this game.

FWIW, BMW is bringing out a new line (800cc's) to offer some appeal to middle tier buyers.

If the MSRP is shocking, and one really wants a bike from Munich, the way to buy a BMW is in the previously owned market. Let someone else eat the steep depreciation, and one gets an outstanding and long lasting bike.
 

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33 shopping days left ....

SteveC said:
It seems BMW is pricing themselfs out of sales, I`m in the market for another bike , but the new GT around 20k NO WAY. Yahama looks good. Price is what BMW should be. What do you think?
The new S is 550+ pounds, no tail rack, and tiny 25 liter bags expanded. And about 20,000 USD. The new GT is just too big (as is the new RT). However, this is under 15,000 USD, two full size bags, and under 510 pounds. The diff in dollars pays for the maintenance. We like the S, but I'm glad we're not shopping right now. This would be real, real tempting.

http://www.ducati.com/bikes/my2006/ducatiModel.jhtml?family=sporttouring&modelName=ST3SABS-06

Our RS has several years left in her, so Santa can wait.
 

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...the way to buy a BMW is in the previously owned market.
You can get some smoking deals on a used BMW bike, and if I were to do it all over again, I would have bought a used bike with aftermarket goodies already attached. Doesn't help anyone who must have "new" though.
 

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...my problem is...
Not a problem unless you view it as such.

Just curious - what were you buy/sell prices of each of your BMW's?

You might be wise to wait until you find a "keeper" - if you can't, then cheaper is obviously better.

I do tend to keep bikes for a long time - but I compensate by having a bunch of bikes!
 

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rickd said:
You can get some smoking deals on a used BMW bike, and if I were to do it all over again, I would have bought a used bike with aftermarket goodies already attached. Doesn't help anyone who must have "new" though.
It would love to have a New Home.
 

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personally an ST3S does nothing for me, way way weak in the power dept, 107 HP and 72 TQ at the crank no less. While it may be a fine bike it is not in a BMW KS or KGT class, more like a R12ST 110 hp/85tq class of bike.
When you look closer to apples to apples the ST3S isnt any cheaper as the R12ST list at 14,9.
Now to maintain one for the long haul a Ducati will cost more than a Beemer.

I dont know why (other than sales numbers) Ducati did away with the ST4S instead of updating it with the engine out of a 999S and adding in some of the 999's adjustablity in the ergonomics dept.
That would have been a sharp Sports Tourer!!
 

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20 grand is a lot to pay for a bike especially considering the price of jap bikes which could run 5-6 grand less than the BMW. 4 years ago when i decided to get a bike i did a lot of research and finally decided that the k1200rs was the bike for me. it wasn't the fastest, wasn't the nimblest but overall it did everything i wanted it to do and did it well. i test rode hondas, kawasaki's, yamaha's and while they were all nice bikes they just didn't cut it. i finally decided to cough up the extra 6 grand for the k1200rs and haven't looked back since. the 17 grand i paid for my RS was well worth it and although i could have purchased a jap bike for 10 or 12 in my opinion no jap bike measured up to the KRS. fortunately for me $$$$$ where not an issue but for some i can understand buying a jap bike and saving 8 grand means a lot. test ride the new GT when it hits the dealer showroom and then pass judgement you may find out that the 20 grand is worth it and this is the keeper you've been searching for.
 

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Reading this thread, I recalled a converstion with my dealer regarding buying a new BMW motorcycle. After being sodomized on depreciation on my '02/'03 KRS, I essentially told him that would never buy another new BMW unless he agreed in writing to reimburse me for any deep discounts offered on the bike after my purchase. I did this because BMW themselves screwed me out of $6,000 six months after I bought my bike (instant rebates + lower financing + waive a few payments). I fell into the BMW hype trap that these bikes hold their value much better than others. Now I realize that the Jap bikes depreciated much less than the recent BMW's. I don't mind a reasonable amunt of depriciation, but 30% in less than a year is a bit hard to swallow.

The dealer replied that BMW had learned their lesson and was not over producing bikes and they would not offer such deep discounts in the future. While that may be true, I am not willing to take that risk on another new BMW.

So are the new BMW's worth it? Maybe. But at these prices, there are now a myriad of other options available to touring riders. Options such as buying two or three late model used jap bikes for the same price. For $20k I could buy an awesome crotch rocket, a nice touring bike, and an excellent adventure bike. Why would I buy a new KGT that will probably take a $6k or $7k hit in two years even if it sits still. However, if I see that the self imolation stops happening, it might be worth a fesh look.
 

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Value is in the used market..

I've purchased two new BMW's back to back in the past 4 years....what an idiot. I love their bikes and their off beat designs and nothing beats the solid feel of the ride and the way the BMW line gets better with age, but man, even I think MSRP for a new bike is really getting a bit out of hand. Heck, I'm embarrassed to tell people what I spent for my KGT....ridiculous.

My riding buddy and I both have KGT's of the same year. His is green, mine is blue. I purchased mine brand spanking new and he purchased his a year later for $5k less than what I purchased mine for. His bike had 2,700 miles on the odometer at the time of purchase.

There are many opportunities to purchase very low mileage, one and two year old BMW's for 65-70% of new, and many of these bikes come with several desirable accessories.

Used is where it's at.
 

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Heh heh, yeah, Japanese bike owners are always aghast at BMW prices. Fortunately you just have to hunt up HD owners who invariably say, "Oh, is that all? Why, I thought they were expensive!" They think we have DISCOUNT bikes.

If you turn your bikes every couple of years, you are almost certainly better off financially with Japanese bikes. If you keep them longer the BMWs will depreciate less on a percentage basis- how much do you think you can get for a 10 year old Kawi? But the Japanese bikes cost so much less that the immediate depreciation is likely less on a dollar basis.

Smart people buy slightly used, and let someone else eat the immediate depreciation. People who want new anyway- and the latest and greatest to boot- take it in the shorts. Same in cars as in bikes. If you want new anyway, be prepared to pay for it.

As for me, I don't regret even a dime of it, I have loved each and every BMW I've ever owned and the last 4 I've bought new. And they were a HELL of a lot less trouble than the used one. That one was a little too used. . . .

The only major problem with the new slant 4's is not turning into a complete hooligan.
 

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the KS is the first new BMW bike I have ever bought (had lots of airheads,oilheads and a KRS I bought used).
The last one I bought used I lost 4k in 53k miles of riding that is very acceptable for over 5 years ownership to me.
Some of the used Beemers Ive owned I even made money when I sold them so really If you want New you pay for New, if you want to minimize your loss or maybe even get all your money back, buy a few years old and let someone else take that initial hit.
Me I didnt want to wait a year or two for used KS's to start turning up cheap and have no regrets at all about buying this one new.
 

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I guess I got so carried away, that I forgot to reiterate the original point. The problem is I do not mind paying so much for a new bike. BMW's used to hold their value. It's only been the last five or ten years that BMW themselves have whored out the used market on their own bikes. You don't see the Japs deep discounting ANYTHING. Hell, Jap bike dealers want almost as much for 2 - 5 yr old "new" stock as they do for '06 models.

I just won't buy a new bike from a manufacturer who devalues their own product.

If someone can point out another motorcycle manufacturer who offers a 25% retail discount from the factory, I'd like to know about it, and will stand corrected.
 

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used

I bought a used rs in az. while on vacation[the price was too good to pass up] It already had hard bags and the good olin's front and back. love it
 

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I've just bought my first BMW having had 1 Honda, 1 Harley, and 1 Kawasali before. I have paid £10,750 for a K1200S with Heated Grips, ABS and ESA which is about a £750 saving on list price. I got the discount because the dealers are on an incentive to shift 05 stock before 31 December this year.

It's still more expensive than the equivalent sport tourer from Honda et al but I intend doing more miles in the BMW than my current Kawasaki where I do about 4,000 to 5,000 miles a year. I believe that one of the features of the BMW, reflecting what at least on the surface appears superior build quality to any of the Japanese bilkes - only Honda get close IMO - is that high mileage doesn't do a lot to the depreciation. I intend keeping this bike for a good number of years and I expect that I'll suffer no more depreciation over the longer stretch than I would if I held onto my Kawasaki for the same length of time, even taking account of the higher purchase price.
 

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anything you buy brand new be it car or motorcycle you're going to take a big hit financially if you get rid of it within 3 years of purchase. on average it takes at least 3 years before the value of the bike is worth more than what you owe on it. a dealer will always offer you substantially less for your vehicle because he's got to mark it up to make a profit and trade in values can vary wildly from dealer to dealer. one dealer offered me 5500 trade in value towards a new "S" for my 03 KRS, another offered 8500 and another offered 9200. selling the bike yourself is the way to go if you've got the time and patience. on average you can get 30-50 percent more money if you sell the bike yourself as opposed to trading it in at the dealer. if your concern is losing money on depreciation then buying used is the way to go. i prefer to buy new because i have no idea how well or how poorly a previous owner treated the vehicle. i know a guy that never changed the oil in his leased SUV for two years and then he traded it in. i know guys that beat the shit out of their bikes but on the outside the bikes look brand new. evferybody has their own priorities and preferences when it comes to buying new or used.
 

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The Yamaha's and Honda's are less money, reliable (first 30K miles), have service/parts readily available, and not too bad looking. Limitations are longevity (not 100K mile bikes) and resale. If you don't keep bikes long, they are probably a better bet. It all depends on what you want.

Yuan
 
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