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IBR# 366
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
BMW Recalls 18 Models in Canada for Potential Fuel Leaks

This affects 6,325 motorcycles in Canada.

A related NHTSA investigation could affect 45,588 motorcycles in the US.

This recall is related to cracks seen in the fuel pump mounting plate at the inlet connector. The dealer will insect the fuel pump mounting plate. If no cracks are found, a reinforcing ring is added to prevent future cracks. If cracks are found, the fuel pump plate is replaced.

Affected models include:

2006 BMW HP2 Enduro
2008-2009 BMW HP2 Megamoto
2008-2010 BMW HP2 Sport
2006-2008 BMW K1200GT
2006-2008 BMW K1200R
2005-2008 BMW K1200S
2009-2011 BMW K1300GT
2009-2011 BMW K1300R
2009-2011 BMW K1300S
2011-2012 BMW K1600GT
2011-2012 BMW K1600GTL
2005-2011 BMW R1200GS
2005-2011 BMW R1200GS Adventure
2007-2011 BMW R1200R
2005-2011 BMW R1200RT
2007 BMW R1200S
2005-2007 BMW R1200ST
2010-2011 BMW S1000RR
 

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So is this something that has been an issue? Don't seem to recall a lot of folks complaining about fuel leaks. And what makes Canadian bikes different then the rest? Seems like another non issue being addressed while the real issues are ignored.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I've seen a few of these fuel pump plates crack. Sometimes when people replace the plastic quick-disconnects with metal, and over-tighten the female side (tapered pipe threads into a plastic boss).

And sometimes just from accumulated heat weakening the thin plastic boss and the plastic quick-disconnect being over-tightened at the factory.

One guy even stuck a bore scope down in there and saw the fuel spraying out the front of the fuel tank onto the engine . . . :yeow:

Obviously, Transport Canada and the NHTSA see this as a serious safety issue, which is why it's getting attention.

Beemer Boneyard even sells a Fuel Pump Flange Repair Clamp to help with this issue, which sounds suspiciously like what BMW Canada is going to use to prevent future cracking on recalled bikes.
 

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Meese said:
I've seen a few of these fuel pump plates crack. Sometimes when people replace the plastic quick-disconnects with metal, and over-tighten the female side (tapered pipe threads into a plastic boss).

And sometimes just from accumulated heat weakening the thin plastic boss and the plastic quick-disconnect being over-tightened at the factory.
Yeah, now that you wrote this I do seem to recall a few reads about it.

However...my '12 GSA is NOT on the list! Yippee Ki Freakin AY! :)
 

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Sorry to hear this. :( If more Canadian GS's would burn, the weather would be warmer and the world would be a prettier place. :clap:
 

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Subscribed...... :popcorn:
 

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when I took my tank out to replace the QuickDisconnnects the said arre had a crak in it. It wasn't leaking but I installed the metal QDs and the clamp ring.
 

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then there is the part

"Although BMW does not believe there is an unreasonable risk to the motor vehicle safety exists the subject motorcycles in good faith effort BMW has decided to cooperate and resolve this issue with NHSTA"

I think this means if it catches fire we should be OK because we will not be caught inside a vehicle. :boom:

Will BMW give in on the ABS issue??
 

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Dang it.
My GT and my GS are affected.
The article I read said that recall work would begin in February. With that many bikes affected, there's going to be a big backlog to get the work done.
I'm wondering if, after the recall work, it would still be wise to go with metal QD's? I don't end up pulling the tank very often, and maybe this is how a lot of the plastic QD's break...?
Thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The weak plastic disconnects are the male side (on the hose), not the female side that screws into the fuel pump plate.

I'd suggest buying the male metal QD and handing it to the dealer mechanic so they can put it on when they're in there. I wouldn't mess with the female side.

Let them inspect the fuel pump plate and install the clamp or replace the plate as needed, and have them install the male QD, then just forget about it and go for a nice, long ride . . .
 

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The way I am thinking....when I come in for the recall, the dealer will be replacing everything.
Pump, gaskets, connectors...all of it.
If BMW figures there is a problem substantial enough to do this recall, there is no way I am going to settle for anything else than all of any potential problems replaced.
My fear is once the tech is in and replaces part of the issue....and 6 months later the pump or something else takes a crap..guess whos dime takes the hit.
I am afraid the dealer is not going to be happy with me coming in.

kbikeinbc
 

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Discussion Starter #14
kbikeinbc said:
There is no way I am going to settle for anything else than all of any potential problems replaced.
That's because you don't understand the scope of the problem. This has nothing to do with the pump, gaskets, or anything else except what is called out in the official recall.

There is a small plastic boss (raised cylinder) on the fuel pump mounting plate that a female quick disconnect fitting threads into. This uses pipe threads which have a slight taper (for a better seal).

If this fitting is overtightened, and add some heat and age, the plastic boss can develop slight cracks. With the fuel system pressurized, a leak can develop at that location.

The pump, gaskets, floats, etc. are not affected and not automatically replaced on every bike.

Note that the fuel pump plate is part of the entire fuel pump assembly, so if cracks are found, then you will get a whole new assembly.

If no cracks are found (the vast majority of bikes) then they will install a metal clamp around the raised boss to reinforce the area and prevent potential cracking in the future.

So the "potential problems" relate only to a cracked raised boss, nothing else.

Sure, you can go in there all belligerent and demand that BMW replace everything, or you can make an appointment with a qualified dealer and trust them to do their job and follow the legally-mandated recall program.

Guess which method is likely to work better, with less hassle for you and the dealer . . . ;)
 

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Leaks

Ken;
Nice explanation and good comment. The key is to have access to a good dealer and excellent mechanics. We have two of these operations in the San Diego area.
EJ
 

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Meese said:
That's because you don't understand the scope of the problem. This has nothing to do with the pump, gaskets, or anything else except what is called out in the official recall.

There is a small plastic boss (raised cylinder) on the fuel pump mounting plate that a female quick disconnect fitting threads into. This uses pipe threads which have a slight taper (for a better seal).

If this fitting is overtightened, and add some heat and age, the plastic boss can develop slight cracks. With the fuel system pressurized, a leak can develop at that location.

The pump, gaskets, floats, etc. are not affected and not automatically replaced on every bike.

Note that the fuel pump plate is part of the entire fuel pump assembly, so if cracks are found, then you will get a whole new assembly.

If no cracks are found (the vast majority of bikes) then they will install a metal clamp around the raised boss to reinforce the area and prevent potential cracking in the future.

So the "potential problems" relate only to a cracked raised boss, nothing else.

Sure, you can go in there all belligerent and demand that BMW replace everything, or you can make an appointment with a qualified dealer and trust them to do their job and follow the legally-mandated recall program.

Guess which method is likely to work better, with less hassle for you and the dealer . . . ;)[/QUOTE

Sorry SIr...but it is you that misunderstands the scope of the problem. BMW initiated a recall, based on almost 45,000 bikes that have been sold.
That's a large problem.
And no apology from here.
If there is a documented problem with an issue surrounding gas and leaks, which there is, then you can be darn sure I will make certain the entire problem is eliminated.
BMW has already stated " in Canada, dealers will inspect the fuel pump flanges on affected motorcycles and install a reinforcing ring and, if necessary replace the fuel pump. " and that's exactly what I am going to demand be completed.
Half baked fix? Reinforcing ring? Then what? Wait for the heat and age to play out and develop a future problem to what could have been fixed in the first place?
Sorry...but not my choice. I will deal with a reputable dealer, and will express my concerns. This is BMW's problem. They have identified it. Offered to fix it, and I for one will not accept a half assed fix.
If you wish to...its your choice. Good luck.

kbikeinbc
 

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No doubt BMW will stick a clamp on it if it isn't flooding gas in their shop's bay.

I probably should be paid for coming up with that clamp idea back in 2009 or 2010 when mine leaked gas all over that fiberglass heat mat beneath the gas tank. I made my own after figuring out how to compress the flange and keep it from splaying out further. Here's one of the links back then: http://www.k-bikes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=165586&postcount=8

So far, it is holding up and not leaking. I used a flexible video scope to see the thing squirting gas on pressuring up. It probably had 5 hairline cracks around the threaded flange and a ton of some factory goop on it for any leaks. Even with a new pump plate, there is no assurance that it won't fail again and crack unless that part has been updated. Even KTM had some plastic gas tank issues and they keep putting the same plastic bit on them over and over again.

BMW is going to take the cheap way out first. They always do. Been through that too may times with them on their warping airboxes and sticking idle solenoids: Solenoid first, then another (more expensive) airbox later if it isn't fixed. A clamp vs. some $500 pump and plate? Guess what you'll get first if it isn't flowing gas everywhere, or even a minimal amount.

Sounds like even their 2010-2011 S1000RR may get one on their forum. If so, I'll toss a clamp on it since I own one of those too. So far, it has been less problematic than the K bike by far. The K always seems to have some issue (EWS error on starting popped up last week. Maybe new key pickup coil time.).

At least the mechanical cam chain tensioner on both bikes from APE is still working well and quieted them down a lot too. Even idle is smoother on both.

Mack
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
kbikeinbc, your response is purely emotional, while mine is purely technical. Now that may seem perfectly valid to you, but as a manufacturing engineer with decades of experience in these areas, I prefer to deal in facts.

I'm also a gear head with 40+ years repairing, customizing, and rebuilding all sorts of two and four wheeled vehicles, just for fun. In my "day job", global manufacturing corporations pay me big bucks to chase problems like these down to the root cause and come up with permanent solutions.

So yes, I understand the scope of this problem, and its solution, pretty dämn thoroughly.

The plastic fuel pump plate has a weakness where the female QD threads in. Adding the reinforcing ring eliminates that weakness. This is a permanent solution for the 98% of bikes where the part hasn't cracked. If the part is showing signs of cracking, then a replacement plate is called for, which will also be reinforced to eliminate future cracking.

GMack discovered this issue on his bike four years ago, and came up with this exact solution all on his own. And hasn't reported any further issues on that front, because the reinforcing ring is a permanent solution to this problem. Just as Beemer Boneyard discovered when they developed the same type of reinforcing clamp and started selling them online.

The recall was initiated because a very small number of bikes exhibited fuel leaks, which can be quite serious, so all affected bikes are being retrofitted. That's what recalls do, so as to completely eliminate the problem.

Honda had an issue a few years back where some Gold Wing frames were cracking. Owners were understandably upset at this failure in their top-of-the-line motorcycle. Some of them demanded complete frame replacements, or an entirely new bike.

Honda was able to determine the root cause of the stress that caused the cracking, and develop a fix that involved a welded reinforcement. Detailed repair instructions were sent to the dealers, who contracted with certified local welding shops to have the frames repaired.

Repairs were completed at Honda's expense, the problem was solved, and the customers rode away happy. That's how business works.

I currently have three BMWs that are potentially affected by this recall notice. None of them are my current ride, and none have exhibited any fuel leaks to date. All of them will get handled by my local dealer at my convenience, and then I'll just forget about it.

But let's be perfectly clear here - your overwrought response isn't based on technology or the problem at hand. Your response is purely emotional.

You aren't "making darn sure the problem is eliminated." You are upset that your precious BMW might have a failure that you read about on the internet, and you're demanding the dealer rip everything apart and start over.

These bikes also have documented final drive failures. Have you demanded an entirely new drivetrain? How about known cam chain issues? Where is your entire replacement engine? EWS errors? Entire new wiring harness?

Why not just demand an entire replacement motorcycle - would that satisfy the emotional abuse that BMW has obviously heaped upon you?

A reputable dealer will handle this issue just as laid out in the official recall. And a good dealer will probably coddle and mollify primadonna customers such as yourself, mostly so that you just shut up and go away, until the next random crisis hits . . .
 

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Thanks so much for your misguided diagnosis of my primadonna attitude and your thoughtful suggestions of how BMW dealers will handle a customer who visits their store to have work completed in a timely, correct and complete fashion.

Seriously, this type of anonymous internet debate is worthless, but I can't really help myself here. Its too easy.

I really don't care what credentials you have sir. You are not a representative for BMW, I doubt you are a investigator for the NHTSA, and I seriously doubt you have the medical credentials to analyze my response as emotional.

What I believe is that you find your self in a quandary in that you have ridden a ton of miles, talked the ton of talk and apparently have had people listen to your apparent knowledge (or lack) of issues surrounding engineering problems.

You mention the other post from Gmack where its states "GMack discovered this issue on his bike four years ago, and came up with this exact solution all on his own. And hasn't reported any further issues on that front, because the reinforcing ring is a permanent solution to this problem."

Keep reading....slowly...this time... and under stand what he says..."Even with a new pump plate, there is no assurance that it won't fail again and crack unless that part has been updated"

The recall states the unit as a whole to be replaced.

Why?

Because a clamp is not a permanent solution to the issue.

Get it?

I would love to hear your conversation with your insurance company when your precious bike is reduced to a plastic puddle from a fire that started with a gas leak. After you have directed your dealer to fix 'just the clamp is all that is needed, I know the problem just do the minimal work, it will be fine."

Let us know how that works out for you ok?

And again...if your happy with a half baked fix based on your so called worldly "Global manufacturing corporate manufacturing engineering experience" that has been so sought after, have at it. After all, they are your nuts that are straddling leaking gas.

kbikeinbc
 

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Discussion Starter #20
It's really this simple:

If it's showing cracks, replace the fuel pump plate.

If it's not, reinforce the area and the problem is permanently solved.

It doesn't get any simpler than that.


Sounds to me like somebody needs go for a nice, long ride . . . :tim

(Checks current weather forecast for British Columbia) :snowlaff:

Oh, sorry, maybe you can get out in a few months when the sun comes up again. :sun:

In the mean time, try not to blow a gasket losing an argument over the internet. It's just not good for your heart . . . :cool:
 
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