BMW K1200, K1300, and K1600 Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
To those who saw/get to see the new GT, please respond.

Will the LT go the way of the dinosaur with the shipping of the GT or will the LT continue to [thrive] as a no-nonsense touring bike? I know that at least one of the site owners here has asserted that this may be the bike that displaces [his] LT for serious touring.

So, those that actually see the GT:
1. Sit on it/riding position! How does it feel for long-distance touring, or just a warmed-up/different 12S?
2. Windshield: Good enough for serious wind management?
3. Tupperware, body: Good shielding for legs, upper body?
4. If you could have only one cycle, would this be it?

Of course these are all personal opinions, but we are interested in opinions!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
486 Posts
For several years, BMW has aimed the LT at large touring bike market, such as Gold Wings. A few times, magazines have chosen the LT over the Gold Wing as the better bike.

If BMW still wants to take on Honda for this share of the motorcycle market, then the LT is here to stay, at least for a while. The Gold Wing is much cheaper than the LT. If the prices of the GT that I've seen are true, then the Gold Wing is slightly cheaper than the GT.

However, if BMW is going in a new direction, then who knows. While the K1200S and K1200R indicate a new direction in the K-series bikes, the GT appears to be aimed at a rider who wants a more powerful RT. The GT does share the same luggage capacity as the RT.

I wonder why BMW is still pushing the RT as a police bike. Why not the GT?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The RT makes less and less sense to me tho' unless they are just afraid to let go of the 2-cyclinder boxer mentality and will ride it into the ground. the 1200 boxer a great engine on my 12GS, and the 12GS can tour, but if the GT hits the market you predict, where does the RT fit.

These are of course questions without answers. I am sure HD faces similar problems issues with their marketing legacy bike, legacy bikes with the new V-Rod engine, blah, blah . . . a fickle market we are indeed!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
For general consumption and FWIW, the new K series are the only ones with wet clutches. It seems that clutch failures are not that common on BMW's to be a major concern (rear drive failures on LT disappointing), but given my druthers, would rather have a wet clutch than dry clutch!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
jpalamaro said:
The RT makes less and less sense to me tho' unless they are just afraid to let go of the 2-cyclinder boxer mentality and will ride it into the ground. the 1200 boxer a great engine on my 12GS, and the 12GS can tour, but if the GT hits the market you predict, where does the RT fit.

These are of course questions without answers. I am sure HD faces similar problems issues with their marketing legacy bike, legacy bikes with the new V-Rod engine, blah, blah . . . a fickle market we are indeed!

As a "proud" owner of an RT, I'll tell you where it fits...in someone else's garage. If it weren't for using the RT primarily for 2-up, I'd never have the thing. But, we've managed to put about 26K miles on it in the last year and a half. It's top heavy so anything slow (parking lots, etc) must be negotiated carefully. The biggest problem to me though is just the lack of power and torque. I also don't like the linked brakes (it's an 04). But to be fair, for what it is, it is a pretty sporting ride...just underpowered. I didn't consider the old GT because my SO was never very comfortable on my K/RS, likewise my R/RS. So in trying to accomodate her (and now she is really uncomfortable on the S) I looked at the other potentials. The LT was out of the question because it doesn't fit the way I ride. The GS just didn't appeal to me so the RT won by default. In retrospect, I should have considered the FJR but I guess I'm just a Beemer guy. So for me, I'll look real hard at the new GT and if it's OK, it will replace the RT. And I'll definitely look at the FJR (w/clutch) this time. I'll keep the S for my solo riding.

I really don't see the GT having much of an impact on the LT. The riding position is a bit more aggressive (and appears to be more aggressive than the RT as well) and while I'm sure it will be comfortable for a passenger, it won't be the "couch" that the LT is. I suppose the easiest way to view the GT vs LT is that the GT buyer will still have some spirited riding in his soul but has the added bit of comfort for the driver and passenger than would be possible on an RS or S. The LT buyer is after more comfort and "bells and whistles" and I would think that pure performance is a little less of an issue. To me, the bikes are for two distinct markets but the gap is closed a bit with this GT vs the old GT.

While I wouldn't cosider an LT or Wing...the new GT looks real sweet. Can't wait to see it in the flesh. Just my TCW.

See ya.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Similarities

The similarities between BMW bikes and Porsche cars are interesting. If you look at Porsche in the '80's, they came up with a new line of water cooled, non-Boxer models (924, 944, 928), with the 928 intended to replace the venerable 911. But it never happened. Regardless of what Porsche management thought, or the features/benefits of one design package over another, the customers wanted the 911/Boxer engine. And today the 911 still exists (albeit in a water cooled configuration - but still a Boxer) and the "92X/94X" series is dead (having had to be replaced with other water cooled models - but with Boxer engines).

From what I have read, BMW had the same thought process with the R bikes. With the power, smoothness, reliability, and other 'benefits' that the K bikes had over the R bikes, the K bikes could not be stopped from taking over the market, and R bikes would just head into the sunset. But... BMW customers thought differently and continued to want the R bikes. So BMW re-thought its plans and revised/upgraded the R Boxer engine and bikes as well.

There will always be a place for a machine in a manufacturer's line-up as long as they sell in the volume and at the margin the manufacturer wants. So while the RT "makes less and less sense" to some (and perhaps even to BMW), it will continue to be produced and upgraded as long as enough others feel that it is the bike they need (and will buy).

Of course there are some who are lucky enough to have multiple bikes, and can enjoy the different advantages that each platform provides...

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
jpalamaro said:
Nice reply Tom. Market driven, huh?
Yup. Just that some may be driven by the marketing more than others!

"But really Hun, I can justify all three bikes if you would just stop yelling at me..."

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
910 Posts
The Perfect Rider vs. The Perfect Motorcycle

A few years back my wife and I journeyed to Tahoe attending the 80th anniversary celebration of BMW motorcycles. BMW can sure throw a party when they want to.

One of the attractions at the three day event at Squaw Valley was the performance of stunt rider Jean-Pierre Goy. Have to tell you that guy is amazing. Not a big person, maybe 5'8" and 160 lbs. His riding included three motorcycles: an F650, an R12 cruiser, and, (I'll be damned) an LT.

He did everything imaginable on all three bikes: stood on the seat, did wheelies, faced backward, did handstands, stoppies, and turned all three bikes on a dime.

My reaction to all this was this dude really didn't need to figure out which bike was best; they were all equal to whatever he wanted to do on each of them.

But, not many of us are like Goy; the perfect rider. We have different requirements and maybe what we were watching in awe was literrally in a vacuum.

So, we all look for that perfect motorcycle: one that will provide a platform to execute that perfect turn, go thousands of miles towing a trailer, lean until the parts scrape, provide the cocoon of blissfully quiet riding, a radio, long range tankage, gobs of acceleration, light weight, great stability in the face of a stiff cross wind. And any of us can add to the list.

We are looking for the combination of the right features that, in sum, work out to the perfect motocycle - within the paramaters of our personal financial situations.

Enter the new generation of BMW motorcycles with all of their attractive "new features". New engine, new transmission, new front suspension, esa on the rear, canbus electronics, new rear drive, digital read-outs, etc. Appealing, correct?

Now, for a what-if; ok?

What if BMW had introduced both the K-S and the new GT at the same time? (I don't think the K-R owners would have faced this choice). Which of these two motorcyles would have been our choice?

This new GT proves a delimma for many of the present K-S owners. Sure, the K-S could tour, had those cute little expandable saddlebags; but, would some of those with the K-S actually, given the choice, opted for the new GT in lieu of the K-S? Some knew of the rumors or just had a hunch that a new GT (or RT at the time) was imminent and decided the "comfort" features of better weather protection, more commodious luggage, more upright riding postion, more relaxed leg position, electronic cruise, etc. combined with the new engine, tranny, suspension, yada-yada, was worth waiting for.

Looks? Well, that's more subjective. The K-S is lower, sleeker, sexier; the GT, maybe more handsome - at least based on the pictures.

Compare it to the present LT? Well, it figures that a new LT will follow the new GT given the way BMW is rolling out new motorcycles. Maybe the new GT is a bit of a testbed for the LT. You can assume that the 155 engine is the one that will appear in the LT. And, if the new GT weighs 600 lbs, then the new LT will probably come in at about 100 lbs less weight than the current LT. I'm betting that BMW is enamored with their new emphasis of lighter, sportier; and, this might be a better way for BMW to compete with the lardy Honda products: both their ST and the Goldwing.

That's my take on the world of new Beemers - now for some feedback out of Long Beach and and San Jose. <g>

Miles
 

·
Statmaster
Joined
·
2,313 Posts
I don't see this displacing the LT at all. Will it take some LT sales? Yes. But displace? No.

I've wanted a "mid-ranged" luxury sport touring motorcycle for a long time. I've had the K1200RS (two of them) and a K1200LT, and I still long for something "in between". Something with the sportiness of the RS, but with the creature comforts of the LT. I am not a fan of the anemic boxer in the RT (even the R1200 variant) in comparison to the smooth roll-on of power from the flying brick K or the heart-pounding pull from the slant-4 K. So I yearn for that middle ground between the super sport touring and the luxo barge LT. The new K1200GT appears to be that motorcycle.

Now, we may kid about the LT by calling it a Luxo Barge or Light Truck, but the LT is surprisingly nimble in the twisties. I know several RS riders at the Texas Hill Country Rally that were amazed at the LT's ability to keep up in many (not all, but many) situations. And there are several other LT riders, namely Pep and a few others like him, that can out ride many (again, not all, but many) RS riders with their LTs. But, let's be real, only a small percentage of LT riders are really taking advantage of the LT's abilities in this manner.

So, do I see the GT as a viable replacement for what most LT riders are looking for? Not a chance. Will it attract a few like me? Absolutely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
jpalamaro said:
To those who saw/get to see the new GT, please respond.

Will the LT go the way of the dinosaur with the shipping of the GT or will the LT continue to [thrive] as a no-nonsense touring bike? I know that at least one of the site owners here has asserted that this may be the bike that displaces [his] LT for serious touring.

So, those that actually see the GT:
1. Sit on it/riding position! How does it feel for long-distance touring, or just a warmed-up/different 12S?
2. Windshield: Good enough for serious wind management?
3. Tupperware, body: Good shielding for legs, upper body?
4. If you could have only one cycle, would this be it?

Of course these are all personal opinions, but we are interested in opinions!

Sat on it today in Long Beach for an hour before show began.

1. Riding position is very adjustable from RT like to S. Almost 3 inches of up and back
handlebar adjustability!!
2. Windshield with MORE adjustment range than 1200RT.
3. Good shielding. The "Tupperware" body looks way better in person because the
various contour lines dont show well in previously seen photos.
4. This large, beautiful, comfortable, fast bike is close to perfect. The German project
engineer I spoke with at length told me the bike has much more torque and
pulls harder than the KS at all RPM's especially down low. Like other recent BMW's
it looks a lot better in person!! It looks especially good with the bags off.

Still no word on price in USA but the bike appears superb.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Red light bikes

Mudbug said:
I wonder why BMW is still pushing the RT as a police bike. Why not the GT?
The police market is all about bragging rights for the motorcycle companies. Here in CA. Harley and Honda are making a BIG push for the CHP to switch over to their brands, so much so that Harley just added a left bag-full of ABS plumbing to try to stay competitive.

I think the R bikes are a known commodity and the engines are proven reliable. When I was riding, it wasn't uncommon for us to put 60k on the bikes in 2 years. And those aren't easy miles, lots of stop and go, idling, 0-80mph right after start-up, etc.

So, BMW probably pushes the "R" bikes because they are proven technology and they might be able to market them with a guaranteed buy back price, like they have done in the past for police fleets. Harley undercuts the BMW prices everytime just to get their bikes in service, according to our fleet manager. Luckily we haven't fallen prey to the "bean-counters" yet and we still ride BMWs.

The K series motor is a wait and see proposition for many police fleets, IMHO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
With regards to price I think we are harder on BMW than we should be. I suspect that a GT with all known options will still top out at less than $25,000. Was down at the HD dealership with a buddy and a 'Farkled out-mostly chrome' Screaming Eagle Electroglide (Legacy bike) came in at 33,000 and those there thought it a 'good buy'!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,582 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks so much for the answers I questioned. Cannot wait! With regards to price . . . well, see my reply regarding the blinged out HD I saw at dealership this week.

Thanks again
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
So this is where all the LT guys go when they're not on our site!
Hey John, saw this post and had to coment too. I don't think the new GT will steal the LT Thunder. It may fill a void for some like the others have observed but the LT does what it does Very Well and only the Goldwing can even come close.
It ought to reak havoc on the ST4, FJR, and Aprila, Ducati ST3 types.
This is more up in that realm of thought. I wanted a K1200GT the old style until I rode one in the summer time and fried my left foot off. Having the S3T Buell taught me to hate "hotspots" here in Florida and while traveling west in the AZ desert. I absolutly love the K1200RS (in Capri Blue) and wish I could afford one too. I think we're safe until they come up with a version in LT trim and frankly I don't yet like the angular style that most manufactures are leaning towards. I much prefer my tupperware swoopier. Heck I'm just starting to get the hang of the LT and really couldn't care less what BMW comes up with in the future. Our LT is one very capable machine. I can't wait for May and my trip, COMFORTABLE trip out west this time. Nah, I wouldn't worry. It's more a bike for someones who wants to tour somewhat but still loves the sport. Hope BMW took a lesson from the Italians and made that muffler "UP" adjustable like on my old Ducati ST2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
My second bike....

After sitting on it at the Long Beach show today, I contracted a serious case of GT Lust - I knew I needed a second bike, I just hadn't seen it until today! As to your question, I will keep my LT at least for a while, until I find out just how much I like the GT (I've already emailed my dealer to put me on the waiting list or start one, as I will be buying one when they arive), but whether or not the GT can replace the LT it's way too early to tell. For those who tour two up, I don't thnk the GT will provide the same experience for the pillion that the GT does, and even with the ugly giant trunk it still won't hold anymore "stuff", I don't think, than the current LT. And neither of those trunks will look as good on the bike as the LT does - but you can take it off when you arrive at your destination, which is a plus.

They say they will be arriving at the dealers in April - anyone heard anything different ?

Phil Degnan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I agree with El Jeffe, the GT fills a void- FAST Sport Touring with a powerfull SMOOTH motor. I've been wanting a 2nd bike that has somewhat less fairing than my LT. It's been between the 1200GS and present 1200GT. I think the new GT is out of my price for a 2nd bike.

Loved my RT in the mountains, but the boxer just isn't as smooth as the 4 cylinder.

Love the LT for what it is- a fast touring bike. I have wear on the tires over to the chicken strip, so the LT will handle- especially with Wilber Shocks.

Can't wait for LT with the new motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
504 Posts
nearmisses said:
I wanted a K1200GT the old style until I rode one in the summer time and fried my left foot off. Hope BMW took a lesson from the Italians and made that muffler "UP" adjustable like on my old Ducati ST2.
I own a GT and have not noticed excessive heat coming off any particular area of the bike. Actually I really haven't noticed any heat coming off the engine when I'm underway. Maybe the sun was shining on your left foot. :)

Yeah I think it would be a good idea to make the muffler "UP" adjustable but I doubt they've done that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
The reason the "old" GT-P was never imported to the US police market was there was no interest. Remember, the folks who attend the LE "trade shows" are the decision makers, ie., Chiefs and administrators. One K1200GT-P was imported to the US to see if there was any interest. There wasn't any interest! Especially when they found out that Motorofficers might be tempted to push the 150 mph limit with the GT.

The GT-P is used in a few countries in Europe and had limited use in Australia, however, never cought on, and never paid for itself as a police Motor.

Motorman
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
If you like your Lt don't be looking for a new one!

eljeffe said:
I don't see this displacing the LT at all. The new K1200GT appears to be that motorcycle.

So, do I see the GT as a viable replacement for what most LT riders are looking for? Not a chance. Will it attract a few like me? Absolutely.
Unfortunately according to BMW at LB show on Saturday your their man Jeffe boy! They are not replacing the LT! They expect riders to move to either the RT, NOT, or the GT another NOT for me anyways. I think the plan will only last a short while until they figure out LT riders are more likely to replace with another marquee than change to another model within BMW. :(
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top